Fred B Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 that hanging note bug is a rewire problem, not PB's.I had Reason rewired today and a note will hang almost everytime you do anything, anywhere in the arrange or in the edit windows. Very strange. I think there are a lot of Reason ReWire users and so far I've never heard complaints about hanging notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenson Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 I think there are a lot of Reason ReWire users and so far I've never heard complaints about hanging notes. fred, you are on the plogue forum. do you think you could help the plogue developers figure out the hanging note problem? i know they are vaguely aware of it, but it does occur from time to time. i suspect guavadude was having more serious problems than normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred B Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 I think there are a lot of Reason ReWire users and so far I've never heard complaints about hanging notes. fred, you are on the plogue forum. do you think you could help the plogue developers figure out the hanging note problem? i know they are vaguely aware of it, but it does occur from time to time. Well, as a long term user I'm on the plogue forum and had in the past some technical discussions with the developers. But as I understand it, the hanging notes are caused by timing issues in low level code, which is somewhat beyond my scope. Anyway, I can confirm that the developers are definitely aware of the problem and have available an example Logic file (from Fatty) for reproducing and investigating it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenson Posted January 27, 2009 Author Share Posted January 27, 2009 Anyway, I can confirm that the developers are definitely aware of the problem and have available an example Logic file (from Fatty) for reproducing and investigating it. brilliant. i tried to reproduce it here today but i couldn't. i think i may try to work out a system so that i am playing a mutli instrument in arrange giving me the fader and pan which transmit to a rewire port in logics environment. that way i can have offline bounce if i need it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred B Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 i think i may try to work out a system so that i am playing a mutli instrument in arrange giving me the fader and pan which transmit to a rewire port in logics environment. Yes, I guess that's possible by cabling a multi-instrument into the ReWire object. Btw, I've noticed that when assigning a ReWire MIDI track in arrange, a ReWire object is created automatically somewhere in the Mixer layer. So you may have to pick this up, or manually create some in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred B Posted January 27, 2009 Share Posted January 27, 2009 Anyway, I can confirm that the developers are definitely aware of the problem and have available an example Logic file (from Fatty) for reproducing and investigating it. brilliant.. Sorry, but I've just read on the plogue forum (bug report section) that the developers did NOT yet receive the Logic file that has been sent to them reportedly. I've tried myself to produce hanging notes, but no "success" so far. So to everybody who is interested that the issue gets resolved: Please send a bug report to Plogue including a Logic file with reproducible hanging notes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCTMusic Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Basically, I am treating these the same way I treat multi-output instruments. I record the MIDI and the audio comes up on auxes, so when it is time to mix/automate, I hide the MIDI tracks and just mix/automate the auxes. And so far it seems very stable. Of course, none of this would be necessary if Apple either made Mainstage suitable as a virtual rack or simply let us have 2 instances of Logic Pro open. This discussion has prompted me to do some tests... It would seem that you cannot have 2 instances of Logic Pro running on the same Mac.... BUT... Logic Pro and Logic Express WILL play nicely! Using the IAC to send MIDI from Pro to Express works fine (with Express setup as an 'old-school' (Physical Input direct connected to Instrument Channel strips via a channel splitter object), then return the audio using Soundflower. This seems to offer advantages: Logic Instrument + FX Plugs, as well as 3rd party (any latency and CPU issues aside) Mainstage, which will also run alongside Logic Pro, can also be set up to act as a 'multi-timbral' "expander" Just a thought CCT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fattymatthews Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hey Guys Yeah i have a logic file here with the hanging note problem. I need to send it across to Seb at plogue. Been jack busy with work for last few days, ill get it to them tonight. Something must be crazy wrong cause every single logic and PB session i run will have a hanging note after about 5 mins. I actually made a video of me setting up logic and PB and sent to eric to have a look over to make sure i wasnt doing something cabbage and it was my wiring skills of PB. But he said it looked ok. Will get Seb the file tonight. I cant even use PB at the moment, only with the Bidule Midis but then i get the delay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Rickwood Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 Is anyone using this for big orchestral templates? I set everything up and when I use Rewire in "live" mode, it's crackle and pop city with one CPU getting maxed out. This is with only 2 instances of Kontakt 2 in Bidule. If I change to Rewire in "playback" mode there is hardly any CPU usage but then the latency is unbearable. I would love to hear how anyone is using it successfully and how to spread out the processing power over the cores. My system: Intel Mac Pro 2x2.66 GHz, 5Gb RAM, Logic Pro 8.0.2, Apogee Duet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guavadude Posted January 28, 2009 Share Posted January 28, 2009 I'm still testing it all out. I found that using PB made my Logic interface much snappier, but I too am getting lots of pops and clicks. I went back to loading in Logic and freezing and printing tracks for now. Still hoping that someone updates something someday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paboblaustein Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Is anyone using this for big orchestral templates? I set everything up and when I use Rewire in "live" mode, it's crackle and pop city with one CPU getting maxed out. I'm getting the same thing. When running Plogue (doesn't take much loaded into Plogue at all) I instantly get CPU spikes and overloads resulting in clicks, pops and error messages. I heard it's because Rewire can only make use of one core...so all my dreams of tearing the roof off Logic's RAM limit bumped right up against Rewire's CPU limits and my Pogue dreams got flushed right down the Bidule. It should be noted that turning off 'multiprocessor support' in Kontakt's prefs lightened the load on the CPU's. But I'm desperate to hear from anyone successfully loading up Plogue and piping it into Logic without overloading a core. Is there another program besides Rewire that isn't hampered by the single core problem that can be used to pipe in audio/midi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred B Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 ..Is there another program besides Rewire that isn't hampered by the single core problem that can be used to pipe in audio/midi? ReWire is the only technology supporting sample accurate MIDI and audio routing. I think Plogue Bidule is the only implementation of a ReWire AU host. Ableton's Live can also run as ReWire slave to Logic, and it's also an AU host. BUT, in ReWire mode the usage of AU's is disabled.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenson Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 ..Is there another program besides Rewire that isn't hampered by the single core problem that can be used to pipe in audio/midi? ReWire is the only technology supporting sample accurate MIDI and audio routing. I think Plogue Bidule is the only implementation of a ReWire AU host. what about RAX? i am currently only on a 2 CPU G5 anyway, but i was hoping this might solve the issue of exploiting CPU. well Rewire is not the only method of getting audio back into logic from another application. there is soundflower (which i have never gotten to work) and audio jack. perhaps a combination of AU lab and audio jack will be more effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenson Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 actually it is possible to assign a different processor for an instrument by opening the contextual menu for it and choosing multiprocessor. what happens on the multicore computers? do you get to choose more than 2? actually manually choosing a CPU could be highly advantageous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred B Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 what about RAX? RAX doesn't support ReWire. The concept is basically the same as MainStage. Both are primarily designed for live use and much more CPU hungry than Logic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred B Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Rewire is not the only method of getting audio back into logic from another application. there is soundflower (which i have never gotten to work) and audio jack. perhaps a combination of AU lab and audio jack will be more effective. In my experience - Soundflower works very well (but limited to 16 channels) - AU Lab is unreliable (crashes on re-load of configurations) - Jack is very complicated to set up, and consumes a lot of CPU by itself I think the most unproblematic ReWire-less solution for using eg. Kontakt outside of Logic would be running it as standalone, routing MIDI via IAC, and audio back via Soundflower. However it suffers more or less from timing inaccuracy/latency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCTMusic Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 [ This discussion has prompted me to do some tests... It would seem that you cannot have 2 instances of Logic Pro running on the same Mac.... BUT... Logic Pro and Logic Express WILL play nicely! Using the IAC to send MIDI from Pro to Express works fine (with Express setup as an 'old-school' (Physical Input direct connected to Instrument Channel strips via a channel splitter object), then return the audio using Soundflower. This seems to offer advantages: Logic Instrument + FX Plugs, as well as 3rd party (any latency and CPU issues aside) Mainstage, which will also run alongside Logic Pro, can also be set up to act as a 'multi-timbral' "expander" Just a thought Do try this and compare CCT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred B Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Sorry CCT, it seems I've missed your post. But you're right! I can confirm that Logic Pro and Express play nicely together as I had both installed (version 7) on the same machine. You can also synchronize them via MTC. This means that it would even be possible to distribute the whole song over 2 instances of Logic. No doubt, the combination of Logic Pro and Express is a powerful/flexible/efficient solution. But I wouldn't consider MainStage as it's too CPU hungry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CCTMusic Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Sorry CCT, it seems I've missed your post. But you're right! I can confirm that Logic Pro and Express play nicely together as I had both installed (version 7) on the same machine. You can also synchronize them via MTC. This means that it would even be possible to distribute the whole song over 2 instances of Logic. No doubt, the combination of Logic Pro and Express is a powerful/flexible/efficient solution. But I wouldn't consider MainStage as it's too CPU hungry. No worries... Ii coulda/shoulda posted as a new topic! Nonetheless... Pro + Express as a slave does seem to look promising. Mainstage CPU (and RAM management) could do with some improvements... maybe soon??? CCT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenson Posted January 29, 2009 Author Share Posted January 29, 2009 No worries... Ii coulda/shoulda posted as a new topic! Nonetheless... Pro + Express as a slave does seem to look promising. Mainstage CPU (and RAM management) could do with some improvements... maybe soon?? well i don't have express, and i can't seem to get mainstage up without the midiloopback occuring with IAC. any ideas as to how to setup mainstage so that logic can play the instruments in their? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred B Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 well i don't have express, and i can't seem to get mainstage up without the midiloopback occuring with IAC. any ideas as to how to setup mainstage so that logic can play the instruments in their? In the environment, cable the IAC port from physical inputs to a monitor as "dead end". This will "absorb" incoming IAC messages and thus prevent feedback. PS. As I've said many times, the problem with Logic is that it listens by default to ALL ports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Oh, good lord. is Plogue Bidule only sending stuff out to 1 processor on a multi-core machine? That's what it looks like here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted January 29, 2009 Share Posted January 29, 2009 Sebastian at Plogue answered this for me: "Hello, Jay, It is currently possible to manually assign portions of the layout to a second core/processor (there are a few limitations), the next version of Bidule will most likely let you do that for up to 8 cores. However, when running under ReWire (although Bidule doesn't (yet) prevent that) I don't think that feature should be available/used as it will definitely influence the scheduling of ReWire master app and might in the end even give you worse performance." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 OK, I have switched from Rewire to using Plogue Bidule with Soundflower and it is working great! You are of course limited to 16 SF outputs, but I can live with that for the better performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT3_Jon Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 (edited) Looks like PB via rewire isn't the answer for me! I'm trying to run Prominy LPC guitar library for Kontakt, and play it with my Yamaha WX5 midi wind controller (saxophone player by trade, allowing for some shredding guitar leads!). For whatever reason loading a 2nd instance of K2 on my system brings logic to a crawl (oddly enough though, the instruments play fine w/ little latency, its just logic will now delay a good 20 seconds when trying to open plugins/audio routing/etc. See movie here: http://video.yahoo.com/watch/4150077/11179109 I was hoping to load K2 LPC in PB, but the latency is atrocious, even with ReWire in Live mode/logic in low latency mode. Now, I must admit playing PB with my midi keyboard is 100% better latency wise (though still not perfect timing, its livable) but the whole point was to control LPC with my WX5! I've even tried playing the WX5 input directly in PB, but there is still massive latency! The only way I could get rid of the latency was to avoid ReWire all together and use IAC instead. So far this seems to be working well. BTW, can PB send midi out from a plugin back into logic? RealGuitar now offers midi out, but its only available w/ the VST version. Edited January 30, 2009 by JT3_Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JT3_Jon Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 OK, I have switched from Rewire to using Plogue Bidule with Soundflower and it is working great! You are of course limited to 16 SF outputs, but I can live with that for the better performance. Are you finding any advantage to using PB with IAC/soundflower vs stand alone instances? I guess the obvious advantage is that all your VI's load up in a single location outside (which you can still access via logics external instrument plugin: NO AUXES! HOREAY!), and there seem to be no apparent disadvantages AFAIK, except for the price of another piece of software. Obviously we loose the locked timing that rewire provides using IAC. Is there anyway to get get this back w/ delay compensation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Rickwood Posted January 30, 2009 Share Posted January 30, 2009 OK, I have switched from Rewire to using Plogue Bidule with Soundflower and it is working great! You are of course limited to 16 SF outputs, but I can live with that for the better performance. Hmm. Apogee doesn't play nice with Aggregate devices so it looks like I might be in the market for a new interface. So, what are the disadvantages of using Soundflower with PB? You have to print the track before you bounce, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenson Posted January 30, 2009 Author Share Posted January 30, 2009 well if you can make soundflower work with plogue then you shoudl be able to make mainstage work as well. although really, its the 3rd parties that we need to worry about not logic plugs, so plogue is as good an option as any. it just means you keep things consistent using mainstage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) Some observations... TIMING: my preliminary conclusion is that timing is better via ReWire. Timing of live mode improves dramatically if the process buffer is set to Large, but the timing of playback mode goes right into the toilet. MIDI: Strangeness in terms of what Logic sends to PB depending on whether the ReWire mode is set to "live" or "playback". Here's my lil' test: Playback of a very simple MIDI region to PB via ReWire. Here's the event list: 23.1.1.1 sustain pedal on -- quantized to the downbeat 23.1.1.45 a note -- the first of a series of free-played notes, all starting after the pedal-on event Cycle turned on and the left locator set to 23.1.1.1. Hit play, and... • When ReWire = live mode, Logic sent the following to PB: pedal on pedal off pedal on pedal off series of notes.......... The first pedal on/off pair is bogus. Assuming the second pedal-on is the one from my region, the last pedal off command is bogus. The result is that the notes did not sustain as they should have. But when the cycle looped, the pedal "caught" and the part played correctly. • When ReWire = playback mode, Logic sent the following to PB: pedal on pedal off first note pedal on remainder of notes....... Disregarding that first pair of pedal events for a moment, the part sustained as it should have because the last pedal-on event was not followed by a pedal-off event. But here's what's strange --- notice that the first note was outputted to Plogue before the second pedal-on event. In the event list, however, the first note comes after the pedal. But at least the part played correctly. Hmmm..... Edited January 31, 2009 by ski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred B Posted January 31, 2009 Share Posted January 31, 2009 (edited) The MIDI strangeness looks quite scaring.. Edited February 1, 2009 by Fred B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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