Has Apple abandoned Logic???

[bmdaugherty]

But what I read of your complains, are Logic limitations, like any other sofware has.

 

Then you need to reread them.

 

So maybe the lack of resolution on the fader and zooming inconsistencies are planned. But seriously, next you'll be feeding me some s#!+ about how the bursts of noise when I insert a plugin are a feature designed to make sure I know that I put a plugin in, and that when logic randomly selects comps it's not random at all and part of the new "magic producer" feature where L8 just picks the best take for you... Come on, did you read my post at all? I'm pretty sure most of my above complaints are bugs...

 

There's a big difference between Limitation that ususaly find workarounds,

and actual bugs that dont find any workarounds.

 

BullF**kingShit.

 

Please list the items I mentioned that are "limitations". My list was pretty conservative with regards to feature requests or 'limitations'. If inability to accurately edit audio and undo not working on edits and comps are limitations of Logic, then I have massively mistaken the purpose of Logic STUDIO.

[Ashermusic]

But what I read of your complains, are Logic limitations, like any other sofware has.

 

Then you need to reread them.

 

So maybe the lack of resolution on the fader and zooming inconsistencies are planned. But seriously, next you'll be feeding me some s#!+ about how the bursts of noise when I insert a plugin are a feature designed to make sure I know that I put a plugin in, and that when logic randomly selects comps it's not random at all and part of the new "magic producer" feature where L8 just picks the best take for you... Come on, did you read my post at all? I'm pretty sure most of my above complaints are bugs...

 

There's a big difference between Limitation that ususaly find workarounds,

and actual bugs that dont find any workarounds.

 

BullF**kingShit.

 

Please list the items I mentioned that are "limitations". My list was pretty conservative with regards to feature requests or 'limitations'. If inability to accurately edit audio and undo not working on edits and comps are limitations of Logic, then I have massively mistaken the purpose of Logic STUDIO.

 

Your problem, Mr. Daugherty, is that you define bug as "a problem I am having and have heard that some others have."

 

It is NOT. A bug is something all or most users have. As you know, I train folks to use Logic, as does David, and we receive hundreds of phone calls and emails.

 

I have not received even one i.e. complaining about bursts of noise when I insert a plugin." So my assumption is that it is not a bug but a system specific issue that some users may experience. Which therefore is not a bug.

 

There are hundreds of audio interfaces with their respective drivers, probably thousands of AU plugs and software instruments, not to mention various computers and versions of the OS, hard drives, etc. so there are a lot of potential ways for things to go wrong.

 

Visit Unicorn nation or the Steinberg forums. You will see the same kind of issues that "do not get fixed." Because there are so many variables

 

Digi has fewer because they require their own hardware and drivers and ride herd on the RTAS standard, which is why it is so inefficient. But even they have many more problems with their native systems that with n HD rig. It is the nature of the beast.

 

By all means, use another app if you are convinced they are more serious than Apple about bug fixes. But please, spare us more tiresome tirades.

[marcel72]

You guys are complaining this hard about something that cost, what, $400? Less if you were upgrading from L7? And it has a huge and varied feature set for composing and recording all kinds of music, including 40GB of content? Seriously...

 

If you really want a professional system, get an HD3 or a RADAR rig, or a Studer. Oh, what, you can't justify the price? Then stop whining and live with your choices.

[bmdaugherty]

Again, I say, please list those items on my list that are not bugs. Every single one of these is intermittent. Well except for the catch playhead on marquee selection.

 

Ashermusic, this is a bit closed minded. Why do companies have teams of beta testers? Because they all have different workflows therefore expose DIFFERENT bugs. You CAN NOT tell me that just because you don't experience these that they are not bugs. I started off my post with my list of issues with a disclaimer as to these possibly being specific to my workflow and that with another workflow they may not be as apparent. Maybe you should tell Apple you will be their beta test "team". That way as long as you don't experience any bugs, the software is perfect.

 

Marcel72, you shouldn't be satisfied paying half price for software that works half as well. I was under the impression that buying logic 8 would be an upgrade in performance, stability, and features. Apple never said, "we're selling this on the cheap because we don't have time to perfect it." No they just hype it up, and don't say another word, until it's time to hype the next version. Oh and BTW, I use $2100 dollar Nuendo with NEK, the most expensive native DAW that I am aware of, at least for mac. Not to say that I purchased it based on price, but after I demoed it, I COULD justify the price. After all, how could you put a price on a tool which gives you the ability to succeed at what you are trying to accomplish.

 

Workflows vary, I stated that earlier. Just be happy and feel blessed that you all use some magical workflow free of all bugs and errors. Oh and one more thing. Just because there is a workaround, doesn't mean that there is not a bug. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU WORKING AROUND?

[Eric Cardenas]

 

-5 or 6 tracks are always solo-safed when I open a project and no matter how many times I correct this, it reappears the next time I load the project

-if you show transport (bar at bottom of arrange, not transport window) on a project where the bar was hidden at load, the bar will not update location or button state.

 

http://www.logicprohelp.com/viewtopic.php?t=41770

[Ashermusic]

Again, I say, please list those items on my list that are not bugs. Every single one of these is intermittent. Well except for the catch playhead on marquee selection.

 

Ashermusic, this is a bit closed minded. Why do companies have teams of beta testers? Because they all have different workflows therefore expose DIFFERENT bugs. You CAN NOT tell me that just because you don't experience these that they are not bugs. I started off my post with my list of issues with a disclaimer as to these possibly being specific to my workflow and that with another workflow they may not be as apparent. Maybe you should tell Apple you will be their beta test "team". That way as long as you don't experience any bugs, the software is perfect.

 

Marcel72, you shouldn't be satisfied paying half price for software that works half as well. I was under the impression that buying logic 8 would be an upgrade in performance, stability, and features. Apple never said, "we're selling this on the cheap because we don't have time to perfect it." No they just hype it up, and don't say another word, until it's time to hype the next version. Oh and BTW, I use $2100 dollar Nuendo with NEK, the most expensive native DAW that I am aware of, at least for mac. Not to say that I purchased it based on price, but after I demoed it, I COULD justify the price. After all, how could you put a price on a tool which gives you the ability to succeed at what you are trying to accomplish.

 

Workflows vary, I stated that earlier. Just be happy and feel blessed that you all use some magical workflow free of all bugs and errors. Oh and one more thing. Just because there is a workaround, doesn't mean that there is not a bug. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU WORKING AROUND?

 

bmdaugherty, it is simple, it is a numbers game. I will use round numbers. If i.e. out of 500,000 users, 2,0000 have an issue you can say it is a bug. If 50 do, it is not a bug, it is a system specific issue.

 

And more frequently. workarounds are working around the limitations of the software rather than bugs.

 

Either way, you made your point numerous times. You will convince no one, certainly not Apple on the 50th rant that you did not convince on the 5th.

[bmdaugherty]

No, sorry, if one person is experiencing an issue, it is bug until proven otherwise. Hence posts that begin "I think there might be a bug with X, can anyone confirm?"

 

I mean how much more controlled of an environment can you ask for? Logic is coded by apple, and runs only on os x, which is also coded by apple. Then, all of this code is run on a computer whose hardware is designed by and built by APPLE. Nuendo, on the other hand is cross-platform, which means that it is MUCH less control from a hardware standpoint than logic. However if I have a problem, I can go to a forum where the mods WORK for steinberg and if necessary will elevate issues directly to devs. I have seen them do it. EVEN IF ONLY ONE PERSON IS EXPERIENCING THE ISSUE. This is proactive bug stomping. It's the "If it acts like a bug, let's make sure it isn't." philosophy that takes real communication to put into motion. Apple has 0 communication... (no offense to the mods here. It's not their fault that they can't have open dialog with apple.)

 

AGAIN I WILL ASK YOU TO PLEASE, PLEASE LIST THE ISSUES WHICH ARE NOT BUGS.

 

Eric answered my solo-safe issue, and like i said, zoom and fader res are maybe a stretch, and so might be solo breaking on output reassign...I guess. But seriously, please list anything else that is not a bug. Even better, list the ones you have not experienced. (you can just copy/paste)

 

I can reproduce many of these issues on a powerbook g4 with built in sound, or with a motu traveler. Also I can recreate them on a 15" macbook pro with built in audio or a motu. I can also repro on a macpro 8x2.8 with an rme madi card, oh and also on a macbook with maudio transit. Sounds really "system specific" to me...

 

I just cant believe that this entire Logic community has settled for mediocrity. We ARE the user base, therefore if we are not happy, we can do something about it. We just have to get together and decide that we are going to act as a group of dissatisfied users, rather than complain here or there in a very disorganized manner. Trust me, if I thought that my issues were particular to my system, I would have ironed them out. I even changed systems completely (macbook pro with motu traveler to macpro with rme madi card) and built the new system from scratch (no importing of settings or anything). The bugs persisted. These are not "system specific". "Workflow specific" maybe, but that doesn't mean that what I experience are not bugs...

 

I have repeatedly asked for open dialog about which bugs users experience and which they do not. Nobody accept for eric has had anything useful to say. If you're going to be a logic fanboy, stand up for yourself, instead of trying to shoot me down by claiming I am ranting about useless personal problems.

 

The forums are littered with people asking about potential bugs, which are always answered by "TRASH YOUR PREFS", but who's to say that you didn't want your prefs set in a way that is causing the bug to occur. There would be no way of knowing wether your prefs are actually corrupt or wether you set a particular series of parameters which triggers odd behavior. The fact that there is reason to believe that preferences can be corrupted is perhaps the biggest problem with logic. If they CAN be corrupted, then this is a HORRIBLE bug, if not, then we have been covering up a whole lot of bugs for a really long time. Either way, do you see the issue here? I mean I can trash my prefs, open logic, and still see many of my listed issues. Then, if I put all of my prefs back to the way they were before the trash, more bugs pop up. Am I just supposed to not use logic the way I prefer to use it?

 

I'm trying to make people realize that apple is screwing us over. Bugs have workarounds, limitations do not. A limitation is a hard limit of the software architecture. A good example of a limitation in logic is a max 256 audio tracks. A good example of a bug is undo not working. Ever since they bought emagic, Logic has been on a downward spiral... They just don't care.

 

@eric- This is what I am looking for. Solid documented workarounds. So this is a good example of a limitation of logic. In my mind if Logic is set up to automatically handle channel routings as is the default, it should check that audio 256 is created and always use that channel. This LIMITATION is particularly troublesome for me. I at least know the reason behind such behavior... One down...

 

 

Okay and... OPEN DIALOG, GO!

[Matt Mayfield]

To those who are frustrated and angry about Logic...

 

You can be angry if you like. Attitudes are hard to change even if you want to, and no one wants to hear "shut up and stop your whining," or "it's just computer software, get a life." I would like to share my point of view with you, though, because I have been where you are, with regard to MOTU's Digital Performer a few years ago.

 

The anger will not get through to Apple. Getting worked up about it will only cause YOU to feel anger and stress, and chip away at your mental and physical health. Logic's developers do not have ESP; they are not going to feel your vibe, look up from their workstations with a start, close Minesweeper, open up XCode, and begin fixing the problems you're experiencing.

 

It is also unlikely that they have the time or inclination to pay attention to complaints in a forum.

 

Sadly, there is no way for us to communicate with Logic's developers in a useful, two-way fashion. While this is not the way most of us feel things *should* be, it is indeed the current reality.

 

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

 

The serene choice would be to accept Logic's limitations and let go of the frustration. The courageous choice would be to dive into a different DAW. From my perspective, complaining angrily and futilely about the program instead of taking the steps that could make a difference, does not seem like the wisest choice.

 

Respectfully and with peace.

 

Matt

[Ashermusic]

 

Knock yourself out if this makes you happy. As Barbara Bush said to Al Franken, I am done with you.

[bmdaugherty]

I guess you are quoting everything I am saying? Whatever. I'm done with you too. Now for anyone who's actually interested in bettering Logic, read on.

 

I really want people to start caring about logic. EVERYONE. I mean, I spent a long time learning it, and if leaving it could be avoided, I would have. It is an absolutely wonderful, powerful program in concept, my workflow must just really go against logic's grain.

 

The one thing that this doesn't change is Apple's lack of communication, which in and of itself is enough to drive people away from Logic. I think we can all agree that if Apple would tell us what is going on, maintain a bugbase, and alert users to potential issues, we would not even be having this conversation. I mean it's obvious that people are not satisfied with apples public relations. LOOK AT THE TITLE OF THIS VERY THREAD...

 

I am really happy for everyone who uses logic, and I really don't want to piss anyone off. I mean the whole point is to make music and if logic facilitates that for you, then by all means, use it. I just want to see logic mature on all fronts, performance, stability, and support included.

 

I want to inspire people to start expecting professional level everything from apple. Is that so wrong? (you all sound really offended...) Don't take it personally, it's NOT a personal matter.

[bmdaugherty]

Oh and Matt, you're right. 100% I just see these threads where others are also dissatisfied and I can't stand to just watch as Apple fucks it all up. I just want the best for Logic and I know everyone on this forum does, but it seems Apple just doesn't share our sentiment.

 

I am going to just stop coming here and try to forget Logic. (I'm sure Jay is leaping with joy as he reads this.)

 

I feel better all ready...

 

Peace

[kultschar]

Oh well hold on mate for a few weeks and we may have:

 

A) a free upgrade for version 8

B) or maybe Logic 9 will be a revolutionary revamped DAW

C) or maybe we get nothing or bad news that Logic is discontinued!

 

Im sure now the event is close the rumours will start flying soon if something is gonna happen

[MidiOpera Co.]

 

The one thing that this doesn't change is Apple's lack of communication,

 

First of all, I wouldn't start praising Cubase because they have some representative writing to their blog. Most seems to be misinformation about development of their various products. While I haven't followed all of their stuff since getting Logic, they have left HALion users with a dangling carrot for years, each time telling of development and interaction with their development community. When it comes down to it, they are using their communications to further hype products.

 

In my personal experience, Cubase tech support was a total waste of time - and on my dime - while Apple tech solved the crashing problems I was having early on - after the 90 day support period and paying for the 1 hour phone call.

 

Now....if you really want developer interaction, move to METRO. Jeremy Sagan is the developer and personal host of the user's group. I really have no idea if the application will work the way you do but you will definitely get the interaction lacking in Apple.

 

Good luck.

[muses]

I see so many of these threads and I just wanted to respond to one ... once ... so here goes.

 

The guy who runs this forum, i.e. David Nahmani, wrote one of, if not, THE de facto book on Logic Pro 8. Something tells me, and I could be totally off the mark here, that he knew Logic 8 was coming looooong before any of the rest of us.

 

Now, whether or not he's responsible for any literature on the next iteration of Logic, there are surely people on this board who would be - or at least know what's going on behind the scenes. I would recommend noticing how quiet they all have been around this topic.

 

I know it's a leap of faith, but I have learned to trust the senior members on this board, and if they're still here, it tells me that I just have to tough out these storms because something better's on the way.

 

So, to answer the OP's question: very unlikely, IMO.

[Ashermusic]

Oh and Matt, you're right. 100% I just see these threads where others are also dissatisfied and I can't stand to just watch as Apple fucks it all up. I just want the best for Logic and I know everyone on this forum does, but it seems Apple just doesn't share our sentiment.

 

I am going to just stop coming here and try to forget Logic. (I'm sure Jay is leaping with joy as he reads this.)

 

I feel better all ready...

 

Peace

 

Mr. Daugherty, you have an exaggerated sense of self-importance. Whether you come here or not is frankly a matter of great disinterest to me. .

[sureno]

i thibnk we should be more concerned with "where did swine flu go and is it coming back"

[Bill OC]

i thibnk we should be more concerned with "where did swine flu go and is it coming back"

 

I love to help, but I'm under a CDC NDA.

[bdtunes]

After having read this thread of LP8 users and their related concerns, I can't be happier knowing I've stayed with LP7. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Everyone raves about the feature set in LP8, but time and time again, all I hear is the endless stream of complaints about bugs and workflow problems.

 

I am an advanced user of LP7 and continue to find new ways of streamlining my workflow. I migrated to LP after eMagic was acquired by apple. Believing that the combination of LP being written to work closely with OSX "re-written" code, I thought I would leave Cubase for LP. I did that with a heavy heart. But at the time Steinberg was floundering and didn't have their s#!+ together. To this day, I still believe that Cubase has the most intuitive MDI and arrange window feature set available. I have made strides with Logic but always at the great expense of time and patience. Everything in Cubase is so simple and requires such little learning curve that my time was spent writing great music not reading and programming new commands in my key commands list.

 

Since my migration, I have had no choice but to adapt to the "environment" of Logic and accept my commitment. I still reflect on my years with Cubase, even back to the days of using it on my Atari megaSTE MIDI computer. That thing was solid. The arrange window in LP8 concerns me. It just looks too Apple-ized.

 

eMagic should be allowed to be themselves. Apple's footprint has greatly affected the direction of future versions. I have gone the legitimate route with Apple, after committing to LP. I do not long for LP8 whatsoever. And the idea of another full revision or version so soon is ludicrous. Just the mention of LP9 shocked me and caught me off guard completely.

 

How about a new rev for LP7.2.3 users??? Is that unrealistic? If my usage of LP is any kind of an accurate barometer of a certain demographic's concern with updating to a very buggy LP8, then Apple should take note. I'm sure there are many of us out there. In fact, I have learned of several established composers and post editors who have not updated to LP8 and have no intentions to do so.

 

I concur with what was stated regarding Apple's lack of attention to the development of their newly acquired pro audio platform. Realistically, I cannot expect anymore attention than what we currently see. That is just enough to get by. The economy isn't helping and Apple's focus is clearly elsewhere and not on LP. I've worked too long in this industry to be suckered by manufacturers to buy their new software releases. I wouldn't even consider LP8 until at least 10 software revisions.

 

I worry for the future of LP.

[bmdaugherty]

Wow, your defensive Mr. Asher... why are you taking this so personally? The difference in our outlook is that I want to see Apple step it up and you seem to be happy with it the way it is. Thats fine.

 

I mention almost every time that my woes are probably due to my specific workflow and that issues may only crop up when I work in a certain way. I have asked several times for you to elaborate on and defend your stance. I fail to understand why you keep coming back to this thread simply to insult me instead of contributing to the discussion in an intelligent way.

 

Sure there are some bugs, every program has them. I don't understand why you are taking it so personally. Forget about it.

 

@bdtunes- I own logic 7 pro as well. It's funny, after having worked with 8, logic pro 7 just seems so "manual" by comparison. It seems like there is more control. I think the interface is just more solid. I often contemplate downgrading, but compatibility can be a real problem.

 

I'm pretty sure Apple hasn't abandoned Logic... It's business as usual for apple to obscure every detail possible.

[Ashermusic]

Wow, your defensive Mr. Asher... why are you taking this so personally? The difference in our outlook is that I want to see Apple step it up and you seem to be happy with it the way it is. Thats fine.

 

I mention almost every time that my woes are probably due to my specific workflow and that issues may only crop up when I work in a certain way. I have asked several times for you to elaborate on and defend your stance. I fail to understand why you keep coming back to this thread simply to insult me instead of contributing to the discussion in an intelligent way.

 

Sure there are some bugs, every program has them. I don't understand why you are taking it so personally. Forget about it.

 

@bdtunes- I own logic 7 pro as well. It's funny, after having worked with 8, logic pro 7 just seems so "manual" by comparison. It seems like there is more control. I think the interface is just more solid. I often contemplate downgrading, but compatibility can be a real problem.

 

I'm pretty sure Apple hasn't abandoned Logic... It's business as usual for apple to obscure every detail possible.

 

We ALL want Apple to improve it. EVERY user of other DAWs want the companies to improve them. They ALL have bugs that their users want eliminated.

 

You accomplish nothing in the 50th post demanding this and discussing it here that you did not in the first 2. The developers have read or heard EVERYTHING you have posted a hundred times. You cannot nag them on a forum into doing anything they are not planning to do already.

 

All you can do is bore the crap out of the rest of us. Go write some music!

[apoplexia.music]

It is very clear that Apple does not have its priorities set on the Pro-Audio side of things, they are more of a commercial-consumer oriented company, selling gadgets, laptops, and other non-Pro Audio related applications. That's what they sell the most, and make the most $$$ with. Logic Pro is most likely way down on their priority list. (I love my iPhone, iPod, and Mac Pro)

 

I used LP7, and LP8, for the last three years, but, I recently added Cubase 5, and feel that I have invested in Yamaha/Steinberg's product line, where they have music Pro Audio applications, and Music/Audio hardware as their #1 Priority, not iPhones, iPods, and iBlablabla. They respond to their customers with a human touch, where Apple is a ghostly, corporate figure, with an arrogant attitude.

 

EMagic/Logic the original developer of Logic, had the best support, and development focus in the industry, but, this is way back in time, I was using DP at the time, but was quite impressed with Emagic as a company, but, now that Apple is in charge of LP things are just getting worse, and I'm not expecting any miracles to occur, even if LP9 is released, IMHO, this does not change the big picture, its just a new cycle that will repeat itself.

 

If Apple was to create a Pro-Audio division, that can really provide the support, focus, and fast development, including the participation in trade shows (like the rest of this Pro Audio Industry), offer a Pro-level communication, and feedback to their customers, focus on developing their own Pro Audio hardware, then, and only then would I feel that things have changed to the better.

 

For now, I work with Cubase 5, and find it more intuitive than LP8, it offers better work flow, advanced audio, midi, and many advanced features that are not available in LP8, or even in other DAWs on the market, cross platform compatible, Advanced Integration with Yamaha HW, the list goes on.

 

i find it very odd that Apple bought out Emagic, which developed one of the best DAWs ever, just in order to develop Garageband and cater to casual consumers, and completely leave out the professionals who had a tradition of using Logic... I think Logic is a wonderful tool, and while it may be flawed, it's still pretty powerful for all you can do with it...however it is sad that some features that should obviously be there (having been mentionned a number of times in various sections of this forum) are just consistently missing...

 

and the fact that Apple has not delivered any updates in a loooooooooong time, compared to the useless updates they regularly dish out for their products like iTunes and whatnot and even a new version of Garageband in 2009 while Logic has just been abandoned....urgh...it is frustrating.

 

but hey why not make the best of it? it's not perfect, but it's always possible to work some aspects in other software.

[bdtunes]

I remember the AES convention that I attended the last time Opcode had a booth. When I arrived at their booth, I couldn't believe what I saw. It looked like someone had just robbed them. There was nothing there but papers and disorganized tables. I never used Vision but I knew it had a pretty wide user base and a loyal one at that. Vision users tended to be a little higher on the "knowledge" chain than most. They had to be. The interface was somewhat cryptic IMO. But the feature set of controls was quite intuitive and deep. Opcode died that day at AES. In the post world I've seen incredible workstations like the Audiovision, the DSP Workstation and various Fairlight products die at the hands of AVID as a direct result of Digidesign's growing affluence. Audiovision to this day is still the one of the most intuitive, designed-for-post systems ever made. A sad day it was for all users.

 

Case in point......I liken Logic back then to the same user base as Vision users; advanced users (generally), with a heap of basic users who really are in over their heads. Do you think it was an accident that Apple "simplified" LP8 to the degree it did? Yes even the basic users have the same currency in their pockets as advanced users. And here we are...waiting for fixes. Priorities get lost, even for the most brilliant designers, in the wake of $$$.

 

I see the same apparent symptoms at work that contributed to the demise of Vision and Audiovision at play with Logic. Great products do die. The success of Apple in recent years has left me with a sense of great pride (and matured angst towards PCs) and an all too familiar sense of foreboding regarding Logic. The direct relationship with the growth and success of Apple is paralleled in the apparent forsaking of Logic's complete needs.

 

My eccentricities become apparent when I say something like, "I love Logic." Yes, it sounds dramatic and over the top. But when a product brings to life the essence of what creative people long to capture in a way that's close to what they'd heard inside, then a relationship transpires that becomes almost intangible. Logic is just a tool. And for Apple it's just a fraction of the revenue they are generating. But creatively it is my portal.

 

In past years I would try and reassure users that Logic is not going to disappear. But events equally as horrible have happened in the past as such.

 

One has to ask....why continue to develop Garageband if Logic is under the Apple umbrella already. IMO, one of the two will have to survive. Developing both makes no business sense. In all likelihood, the product with the larger user base will win. Let's see how greedy Apple gets.

 

Having read the LP8 user manual, I applaud many of the new features. In most cases, they improve the efficiency of the workflow. Being a sound designer, I despise using stock patches in my compositions. I, without exception, always alter and customize before I put my name on it. It may be old fashioned, but I believe that there is a certain ethical standpoint that can't be overlooked: it wasn't my sound when I bought it. I just purchased the synth. Anywho. For that reason, the manual aspect of LP7 that dmDaugherty mentioned, which to some extent is true, is still a justifiable part of my workflow because I'm still controlling the process of design. This may contradict the simplicity I alluded to as a Cubase user, but I'm not a Cubase user anymore. And so my allegiance belongs to Logic and I inherit all of its flaws and benefits.

 

Automation is a critical aspect of my work in Logic. I know how to use it. But I strongly feel that it requires too much modifier key usage and multiple step workflow. If we could emulate the ProTools automation, Logic would take leaps and bounds in the right direction. Believe me, I have quite a jaded opinion of Digi, so don't think I'm on their bandwagon. But anyone who knows of and works in this industry is aware of the distinct differences between Logic's realistic creative advantages/limitations and ProTools' software/hardware superiority. Please simplify Logic's automation!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's seriously slowing me down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Tunnel vision hurts everyone.

 

Is there any truth to the rumor that Apple approached Steinberg first before they approached eMagic, to offer acquisition, and Steinberg turned Apple down???

 

Thanks for your time.

[Matt Mayfield]

One has to ask....why continue to develop Garageband if Logic is under the Apple umbrella already. IMO, one of the two will have to survive. Developing both makes no business sense. In all likelihood, the product with the larger user base will win. Let's see how greedy Apple gets.

 

One has to ask....why continue to develop iMovie if Final Cut Pro is under the Apple umbrella already. IMO, one of the two will have to survive. Developing both makes no business sense. In all likelihood, the product with the larger user base will win. Let's see how greedy Apple gets.

 

But it is a silly idea either way. There is room for both entry and pro level software.

[bmdaugherty]

Exactly bdtunes. If logic facilitates your creativity, then use it. Also, I was just thinking about the fact that we don't know how many daw manufacturers apple approached before they found one who said okay.

 

I really enjoy os x, particularly leopard, and I really like apple's hardware design, both aesthetically and technically. Their success has put quite the demand on the development process I am quite sure.

 

You're right that good products die, and I really hope Logic is not one of them. That being said, a lot of people around here have more faith than I do... corporations are sons of bitches.

 

The software biz is particularly volatile, because hardware evolves and competition is stiff. Not only are users and apple corporate pushing the devs to add features, but maintaining the existing client base REQUIRES maintenance updates. This puts devs in a really crappy spot. Either add new features, which will inherently add bugs, in the short term at least, or fix the app to be solid. It's a hard line to walk. As soon as a competitor adds a feature you don't have, all of a sudden you're "way behind" and users get antsy. It must suck.

 

Peace,

Brian

[Larry Mal]

I'm not jumping in on this fray... but I found the mention of Logic 9 Beta interesting. There are a lot of rumors. If it doesn't come out, and Logic doesn't get a patch, there's gonna be a bloodbath.

[bdtunes]

Matt I see your point but the analogies are relatively different. Having sold high-end equipment for years, I fully appreciate the difference between the Garageband and LP user base. I wanted to try and avoid the simplicity of that point. Winning may not necessarily mean the demise of the other. Winning may very well refer to a manufacturer's choice in providing "preferential" solutions to the platform whose revenue gross exceeds the other. Therefore, survival is relative as well. The bottom line is that we may witness the support of Garageband beyond its immediate demographic needs, at the expense of LP users who really are desperately in need of various and numerous fixes which directly affects their ability to generate income and workflow progress.

 

How many Garageband users are scoring for feature films these days Matt? I hope none are for our sakes. Apple knows that as well. So who is the culprit here and where does responsibility rest knowing full well the number of people dedicated and relying on the platform for their living. It's not a matter of having a program for one and another for the other. It's a matter of principle in providing support in the widest sense to a user base whose creations grace and disgrace our screens on a daily basis. That's where the neglect lives.

 

Whatever element of Apple is reticent about the current malaise over LP problems has undoubtedly had to accept Apple's stance or get a new job. So often I've witnessed manufacturer's strategies backfire regarding certain successful products and their inclusion or blatant missing features. The mindset of these companies has always been to delay the introduction of a feature until it's unavoidable to maximize the revenue generation of their current product line. Am I boring anyone yet?? Of course everyone knows that. If Apple wanted to fix these problems they simply would. But they don't because they chose not to do so. Success can often breed redundancy and complacency.

 

We're living in a time of diminished returns on multiple fronts. Our gear is all we have to compete against the Hans Zimmers and others of the like. When the gear becomes an obstacle to translating what we create inside, then we need to really re-assess things. Of course it's the talent not the equipment. Blah, blah, blah. Let's leave the obvious cliches behind please. Yes there are workarounds. But F that. Workarounds are not solutions. I want an intuitive and solution based platform. Don't tease me with a few necessary changes and improvements and leave me hanging. What PT does as an editor is not patented! Why not learn from it. Swallow your pride Apple and step up where you have to. How many features that the iPhone introduced have already been incorporated into the competition. MANY! LP can benefit from the same rationale.

 

All the best.

 

All the best.

[8EBREAKZER]

What i dont understand as well is why on earth did apple bring out the program garageband and name it garageband when they could of used a stripped down simplified logic and called it LogicBand or LogicEntry or LogicMe.. then when you have learned this entry level logic you have the option to upgrade to logic studio pro as the "pro" app..!? or are they going to change logics name to garageband pro???.. having 2 separate music programs doesn't make sense at all to me when you are a first time mac music person like me.. you'd think that once you get into garagband and want to learn more that you would be given the option to upgrade to GarageBandPro!?.

[bmdaugherty]

What i dont understand as well is why on earth did apple bring out the program garageband and name it garageband when they could of used a stripped down simplified logic and called it LogicBand or LogicEntry or LogicMe...

 

Probably for the same reason imovie isn't called final cut lite or something like that... But thats beside the point. Apple really does have a lot of redundant software products. I mean garageband and Logic pro are understandable, but then where does this leave logic express and the multichannel half of soundtrack pro? It's ridiculous.

 

Like bdtunes said, if they wanted to fix the problems they would, but they don't, because of bureaucratic BS. Anyway, how could they have any time to fix LP when they are maintaining (or supposed to be maintaining) 4 separate DAWs...

 

The real problem here is apple, not logic.

[marcel72]

Everybody stop for a second...

 

Think about all the products that Apple develops, manufactures and markets.

 

When you look at it that way, do you think they care about this discussion? It's not like Logic is anyone's 'baby' in Cupertino. They bought the program as a turnkey DAW solution, and have basically done very little beyond GUI updates since then. Why would they choose to spend their assets on a handful of people whining about the finer points of a very specialized professional application (whether you think it is or not is immaterial - it's not a consumer product) when they could instead use those assets to develop new consumer hardware that will continue to make them billions of dollars?

 

Logic is very inexpensive. If it does what you want it to do, fine. If it does not, then spend the money to get something that suits your needs better.

 

If you want a really hot tip, spend your money on analogue equipment, and use your computer as a simple 'editing tape deck'. Analogue gear has no OS conflicts, no updates, no changing key commands or bug fixes. When it breaks it can be fixed, and if well cared for, its life expectancy is nearly infinite.

[MidiOpera Co.]

but then where does this leave logic express and the multichannel half of soundtrack pro? It's ridiculous.

 

Leave my Logic Express alone

 

I just looked at Soundtrack to see what I'm missing. I have a number of audio editors that do for me what ST will. The only remaining reason for me to upgrade would be for the sound designer plug in.

 

Logic Ex is the best way I've seen to get into a pro music app. Compare it to software like Cubase SE, LE or Metro lite versions to see my point. Logic Ex is the same midi/audio DAW as Studio. No track or plugin limitations, full score features etc.

 

Again, good luck.