David Nahmani Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 What's a joke is you saying that you have contact with the developers. If you did have contact with the dev team, why can't you help us out with a release date, even a release quarter... Because anyone with access to any information is under NDA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babe Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 I just want to know one thing from Apple: Is this the end of the line for Logic or is there updates coming in the future? If there will be no further updates, it will be time to move on to another DAW as Logic will eventually become unusable as computers grow up and other DAWs get better and better. If there are going to be updates and the Logic is not abandoned, great, I'll wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapeworm Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 FWIW.... I remember reading a book on computers back in the mid 80's (C64, AtariST days) that was about how complicated programs were becoming in relation to being bug free and that it would take an army of supercomputers millions of years to work out every permutation in order to make software bugfree. IOW, a virtual impossibility. I know it sucks, being that products are sold that have no wheres near a 100% reliabilty factor like we demand by pretty much any other products we buy. We certainly wouldn't stand for it if our appliances or automobiles, for example, were as buggy as computers are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 We certainly wouldn't stand for it if our appliances or automobiles, for example, were as buggy as computers are. Are you sure about that? In my Toyota Highlander, if you open both rear windows while the car is running, there's an unbearable ultra-low rumble that hurts your ears so much you have to either stop the car or close the windows. Some kind of a bug! We recently paid good money to have recessed lights installed in our living room. Those emit a high-pitch sound that's so annoying I usually leave them off. I have a hifi with a 3 disk CD changer (an antique). When you turn it on and try to play CD #1, it first takes about 2 minutes skipping to every single CD to see which platters are loaded and which aren't. I have many more examples if you need them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapeworm Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 We certainly wouldn't stand for it if our appliances or automobiles, for example, were as buggy as computers are. Are you sure about that? In my Toyota Highlander, if you open both rear windows while the car is running, there's an unbearable ultra-low rumble that hurts your ears so much you have to either stop the car or close the windows. Some kind of a bug! We recently paid good money to have recessed lights installed in our living room. Those emit a high-pitch sound that's so annoying I usually leave them off. I have a hifi with a 3 disk CD changer (an antique). When you turn it on and try to play CD #1, it first takes about 2 minutes skipping to every single CD to see which platters are loaded and which aren't. I have many more examples if you need them! Thats weird, I have a new elantra that when I opened the rear windows I was like "WTF is that noise!!??" Its a low frequency rumble that'll make you crap your pants and give you a headache. Really. what the hell IS that?? My CD changer does the same thing I just bought a little outboard dimmer contraption for a table lamp the other day. It freakin whines too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elektrovert Posted May 30, 2009 Share Posted May 30, 2009 If there will be no further updates, it will be time to move on to another DAW as Logic will eventually become unusable as computers grow up and other DAWs get better and better. If there are going to be updates and the Logic is not abandoned, great, I'll wait. I only moved from Logic 5 on a windows based machine about 7 months ago. Just coz there are no updates doesn't mean the software is rendered useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I just want to know one thing from Apple: Is this the end of the line for Logic or is there updates coming in the future? If there will be no further updates, it will be time to move on to another DAW as Logic will eventually become unusable as computers grow up and other DAWs get better and better. If there are going to be updates and the Logic is not abandoned, great, I'll wait. Geez, talk about a pessimistic attitude. Unusable? Abandoned? Come on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmdaugherty Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 What's a joke is you saying that you have contact with the developers. If you did have contact with the dev team, why can't you help us out with a release date, even a release quarter... Because anyone with access to any information is under NDA. AND THEREIN LIES THE PROBLEM. The first rule of apple club is: don't talk about apple club... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdtunes Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 What's a joke is you saying that you have contact with the developers. If you did have contact with the dev team, why can't you help us out with a release date, even a release quarter... Because anyone with access to any information is under NDA. AND THEREIN LIES THE PROBLEM. The first rule of apple club is: don't talk about apple club... That's it bmD. It's pretty clear where things stand in this forum. Access is denied. The picture is getting clearer and clearer. Yeah, this forum can be helpful in some regards. But generally, there are boundaries where users cannot go. I wouldn't expect to have access to sensitive software material. But a line is clearly drawn in the sand: those who know are NDA'd and those who need to know, just can't. We'll take the scraps of bread until the master is ready to feed us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 It's pretty clear where things stand in this forum. Access is denied. Depends on what you expect. See below... Yeah, this forum can be helpful in some regards. But generally, there are boundaries where users cannot go. I wouldn't expect to have access to sensitive software material. But a line is clearly drawn in the sand: those who know are NDA'd and those who need to know, just can't. (emphasis added) This forum is owned and run by David alone and it's not an extension of Apple. In every regard you can expect to find a TON of help here on how to run Logic. What you shouldn't expect here is that somehow LPH is a venue for inside information about Logic updates. Actually, it's highly doubtful that you'll find that information anywhere on the web. Logic insiders rarely spills the beans. Though it's not like you can blame them, to an extent. For whatever reason they've agreed to sign an NDA, there must be some benefit in it for that person. And that's not necessarily a bad bargain to strike with Apple. Sure, it's too bad that someone out there with inside information (and who has nothing to lose) doesn't come forward and spill the beans. But alas, that's how it is... I'd love to know what's going on myself. None of this changes the situation of Apple communicating NOTHING to its Logic user base. The NDA'ers aren't the problem -- Apple's so-called "corporate policy" is. This huge peeve has been elucidated 10,000,000 times so no need to rehash it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdtunes Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Thanks for that ski. I think Austin Powers put it best......"Somebody throw me a freakin' bone here. I'm the boss.....need the info!!!!" ....back to work..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 The perfect quote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 It's pretty clear where things stand in this forum. It has nothing to do with this forum. It's an Apple policy. Apple chooses not to reveal any information about future products. Therefore if they need to reveal some information to someone, they'll make that person sign an NDA. That way they can protect their policy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Mal Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Frankly pretty easy to understand. Wait for whatever comes of Logic or cut and leave. Plenty of DAW's to choose from. Not that expensive. You can always rejoin Logic later, and take what is necessary from Logic with you should you really have to leave it. This sort of thing is tiresome enough, without trying to browbeat whatever the beta testers and whatnot on this forum know. Who uses only one DAW anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdtunes Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I know I'm a guest here and I appreciate this forum. I've been waiting to upgrade to LP8 since its release over a year ago. But I just won't until things settle down. My position is not uncommon. That's really where I stand with all this. David, do your findings in this forum have any audience with Apple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
route-electrique Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Atleast Final Cut gets upgraded . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidiMonk Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 If there will be no further updates, it will be time to move on to another DAW as Logic will eventually become unusable as computers grow up and other DAWs get better and better. If there are going to be updates and the Logic is not abandoned, great, I'll wait. I only moved from Logic 5 on a windows based machine about 7 months ago. Just coz there are no updates doesn't mean the software is rendered useless. Exactly, updates, unless they fill a need are pointless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sevenfold Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 (edited) Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein I've seen SO MANY bitching comments about Apple's secrecy and silence, in numerous forums over the last few years. The best you can hope for is to vent some of your anger. I don't like Apple's attitude, but I blame Microsoft and their willingness years ago (and since) to blatantly knock off so many of Apple's ideas. Now Apple guards everything, and from that end I don't blame Apple for keep everything close to the chest. But realize all DAW companies have an NDA. And as far as communication, I was a Cubase user for years and much of the info regarding future updates was flat out wrong. Just look up how they handled the whole solo issue to understand how worthless communication can be. The only company I've seen communicate well is Cockos (Reaper) and even they refuse to answer some critical questions, like if/when they plan to implement key features. Repeatedly bitching about the same thing and somehow expecting anything to change seems a bit loony to me, though. Thousand before us have been ranting about it over the years and have made little difference, and Logic has such a small percentage of Apple's total revenue. So study Apple's track record over the last few years and definitely assume more of the same. You should also assume that the latest version of Logic will be it's last, since it wouldn't be far fetched for Apple to roll it into another product or just discontinue Logic at any time. If you feel the need to warn others, request a sticky post to inform new users about the lack of Apple's attention. If you enjoy "cutting off your nose to spite your face", then file that class action lawsuit mentioned earlier. I can guarantee it will burn your energy much more than it will solve anything, or hurt Apple. Then be done with it. Now you're free to decide if you should stay or go, since you are no longer adopting the insane stance that Apple will miraculously change. If you choose to stay, you've accepted Apple's lack of communication and have committed to making the best of Logic's current version, or whichever version you choose to use. Rest assured that great music has been made on much cruder systems. Try to resist penis envy when you hear about other DAWs, and instead focus on what you really need. Continue to post bugs, issues, tips, and requests. You never know when/if it may get heard. But don't waste your energy and work yourself into a funk, or expect anything different from Apple. It's just not worth your mental health. Edited June 1, 2009 by Sevenfold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el-bo Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 apple hasn't had logic for so long i bet they think more than a few moves ahead so , to me, i doubt they plan on discontinuing it any time soon they put a lot of effort into the changes from '7' to '8' , giving it the apple 'pro' apps signature....why do this if they plan to swallow it into garageband or just get rid of it also, the fact that it's possible that those involved in running this forum might know something AND they haven't jumped ship yet is enough for me to believe that there is some life left in the 'ol' girl yet i feel for those who have problems that actually cost them money....most of those who have been around for a while know it's just as bad on the forums of other daws i just feel the discussion is pointless...as far as i can see, everyone agrees that apples quietness is pretty unnacceptable..make your choice...the most 'vocal' on this thread already decided a while ago to quit logic but is still here moaning about it..guess his new daw must be so bug-free that he is bored of complaining should you stay or should you go ???? having tried 3 other daws, i know where the good s#!+ is ultimately we all agree, it aint an ideal situation but i like ashermusics take on things and am concentrating on the positives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8EBREAKZER Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.Albert Einstein I've seen SO MANY bitching comments about Apple's secrecy and silence, in numerous forums over the last few years. The best you can hope for is to vent some of your anger. I don't like Apple's attitude, but I blame Microsoft and their willingness years ago (and since) to blatantly knock off so many of Apple's ideas. Now Apple guards everything, and from that end I don't blame Apple for keep everything close to the chest. But realize all DAW companies have an NDA. And as far as communication, I was a Cubase user for years and much of the info regarding future updates was flat out wrong. Just look up how they handled the whole solo issue to understand how worthless communication can be. The only company I've seen communicate well is Cockos (Reaper) and even they refuse to answer some critical questions, like if/when they plan to implement key features. Repeatedly bitching about the same thing and somehow expecting anything to change seems a bit loony to me, though. Thousand before us have been ranting about it over the years and have made little difference, and Logic has such a small percentage of Apple's total revenue. So study Apple's track record over the last few years and definitely assume more of the same. You should also assume that the latest version of Logic will be it's last, since it wouldn't be far fetched for Apple to roll it into another product or just discontinue Logic at any time. If you feel the need to warn others, request a sticky post to inform new users about the lack of Apple's attention. If you enjoy "cutting off your nose to spite your face", then file that class action lawsuit mentioned earlier. I can guarantee it will burn your energy much more than it will solve anything, or hurt Apple. Then be done with it. Now you're free to decide if you should stay or go, since you are no longer adopting the insane stance that Apple will miraculously change. If you choose to stay, you've accepted Apple's lack of communication and have committed to making the best of Logic's current version, or whichever version you choose to use. Rest assured that great music has been made on much cruder systems. Try to resist penis envy when you hear about other DAWs, and instead focus on what you really need. Continue to post bugs, issues, tips, and requests. You never know when/if it may get heard. But don't waist your energy and work yourself into a funk, or expect anything different from Apple. It's just not worth your mental health. ah but we live in hope.. the hope that the world will become a better place and take appropriate responsibility and give deserved respect to its people and do the right thing.. lol.. so this is where we should stand and fight for this right to be heard!, in the hope that some one at apple is listening.. i think maybe Obama is listening?.., the right of us small fry to be heard and acknowledged by the giant money grabbing corporations that take take take and give us false hope.. all we need is a big juicy apple hug of yes we the logic team are listening and we are about to make your dreams come true.., does hope really work?.. maybe faith instead?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palomine Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I have a Toyota Land Cruiser and it happens when I open one rear window. It's unbearable and it is some kind of resonace caused by air (pressure) entering the car and being unable to escape quick enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 This huge peeve has been elucidated 10,000,000 times so no need to rehash it all. The single wisest comment in this whole sorry thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdtunes Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Yes Jay...and it didn't come from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmdaugherty Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 For one, all of these real world examples of "bugs" in other products are much different. One way they differ is that your toyota's windows for instance do not assist you in making the money you need to live. The lights that whine whenever they are turned on do not make you lose hours of delicate unreproducible work. You don't base your workflow around a CD changer... Also, it's not that easy to just switch DAWs on a whim. You have to think of archives and backups, incoming client files, plus the cost of transitioning every rig in the studio... Even at Logic's bargain price it can be quite expensive. I mean I am transitioning to Nuendo and I can only afford to transition one rig at a time. Buying 3 copies would be nearly 6k. I am absolutely not just gonna "switch back" like it's no big deal. Lastly, bugs should be fixed in order of severity. If one guy can show that every time he does X, Y, and Z, L8 crashes, then that should be enough to be considered a severe bug. How much a bug impacts the usability of the program should assign priority as to how quickly it is dealt with. I keep harping on undo, but seriously, does it not impact the usability of the program more than not having elastic audio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tapeworm Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 I make the analogy, regarding Logics overloading multiple times when you first open a project file, to that of having a car that dies on you repeatedly for the first couple miles whenever you go out for a drive. No one would stand for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer Moth Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Ferrari,Aston,Alfa,Lotus,Jag,Maserati,Lambo, etc ad inf. Exactly what you expect. My son managed to crash Paint on a windows PC to the amazement of its computer programmer owner. s#!+ happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 Yes Jay...and it didn't come from you. True, and I have no problem with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer Moth Posted May 31, 2009 Share Posted May 31, 2009 BTW,Overloads and error tryinig to synch midi and audio etc are Emagic legacy errors. I got them in v3 on PC,v5 on PC and v7 on mac. Not an 8 thing. Happens for no apparent reason once in a blue moon,then doesn't for ages or maybe immediately. Til now 8 is the least problematic for me (except for score issues). Unexpected fart turned out to be semi solid followthrough. Who do I sue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 Yes Jay...and it didn't come from you. Geez guys, you need to take a chill pill. This stupid thread is becoming personal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ski Posted June 1, 2009 Share Posted June 1, 2009 (edited) Unexpected fart turned out to be semi solid followthrough.Who do I sue? Thanks for sharing? Oh, and to your question, I suppose you sue the Mexican restaurant you visited prior to said "event". Wait a second... we're going OT here with this. Beer Moth, please start a new thread if you wish further information regarding your query. And (putting my moderator hat on for a moment)... regarding things getting personal, yes, let's not go there. Thanks. -=sKi=- Edited June 1, 2009 by ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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