el capitan (public beta) & logic X...

[Ashermusic]

1. Words matter, You used the word "suffer."The word "suffer" has no place in any context in this discussion.

 

2. If ANY Mac user chooses to update his OS, whenever he chooses to do so, it is neither reasonable or wise for him to assume that all third party developers will yet have had time to make the necessary changes. Apple doesn't warranty that it will be so, nor do the developers. ESPECIALLY people who use their computer to make a living and therefore use software that a relatively small group of people use. Kontakt e.g. is not Microsoft Word.

 

Only the inexperienced, undisciplined, or unwise jump on a new OS without making damned sure that their critical software is ready to go. There is a reason that there is the saying "if you want to be on the cutting edge you bleed."

 

And now I really am done because if you don't yet understand that, then you only will when you lose a lot of work and money from not having had the common sense to wait.

[fisherking]

1. Words matter, You used the word "suffer."The word "suffer" has no place in any context in this discussion.

 

2. If ANY Mac user chooses to update his OS, whenever he chooses to do so, it is neither reasonable or wise for him to assume that all third party developers will yet have had time to make the necessary changes. Apple doesn't warranty that it will be so, nor do the developers. ESPECIALLY people who use their computer to make a living and therefore use software that a relatively small group of people use. Kontakt e.g. is not Microsoft Word.

 

Only the inexperienced, undisciplined, or unwise jump on a new OS without making damned sure that their critical software is ready to go. There is a reason that there is the saying "if you want to be on the cutting edge you bleed."

 

And now I really am done because if you don't yet understand that, then you only will when you lose a lot of work and money from not having had the common sense to wait.

 

if a developer wants to maintain a client base, it is his responsibility to stay on top of things, not the end-user's responsibility to wait for him.

 

i've been using OS X since 10.2. i have always been an early adopter. i have always had one mac. and i make my living doing music. so it's my choice to dive in. i've had some rough moments, but i have no regrets.

 

if you're scared to move forward, choose to be cautious...that's your prerogative, nothing wrong with it. if i enjoy the challenge of diving in...that's mine. also, there's all kinds of suffering; am not comparing OS issues with world hunger; that was your phrasing, never mine.

 

i have some mixes to finish, so am going back to work...on my brand new OS. i leave you to your anger & frustration.

 

great artists welcome challenges; i'll take mine where i choose to.

[Ashermusic]

As some of you know, Logic Pro now has Gobbler support. Well, I just received this:

 

"Hey there,

 

With the release of OS X 10.11 El Capitan around the corner, we’d like to strongly recommend that you NOT upgrade just yet. At this time, we cannot guarantee Gobbler 2.0 app compatibility with El Capitan.

 

Additionally, a number of DAW and plugin publishers suggest delaying the upgrade - see statements from Slate Digital, Native Instruments, Arturia, and Steinberg.

 

Please see the Gobbler Knowledge Base for more information.

 

Thanks for your attention,

The Gobbler Team"

 

Clearly yet another irresponsible developer

[fisherking]

As some of you know, Logic Pro now has Gobbler support. Well, I just received this:

 

"Hey there,

 

With the release of OS X 10.11 El Capitan around the corner, we’d like to strongly recommend that you NOT upgrade just yet. At this time, we cannot guarantee Gobbler 2.0 app compatibility with El Capitan.

 

Additionally, a number of DAW and plugin publishers suggest delaying the upgrade - see statements from Slate Digital, Native Instruments, Arturia, and Steinberg.

 

Please see the Gobbler Knowledge Base for more information.

 

Thanks for your attention,

The Gobbler Team"

 

Clearly yet another irresponsible developer

 

 

it's business as usual. some developers lead, some follow. just like music makers...some lead, some follow.

 

EDIT: i gotta stop reading your posts, jay. there's nothing to gain by arguing... will stop...now... 8)

[RobbinsEgg]

I'll second that with a notice from Nektar for Panorama controllers.

 

NEKTAR PANORAMA & OS X 10.11 COMPATIBILITY

 

 

Apple are releasing OS X 10.11 (El Capitan) on September 30.

 

We have found some issues during the process of testing Panorama with the latest beta version of OS X 10.11 that we currently are working on resolving.

 

Panorama of course will be compatible with OS X 10.11 but an update to Panorama software will most likely be required. We therefore recommend that you initially postpone updating to OS X 10.11 on any computer that you need to work with Panorama.

 

We expect to have completed all testing and needed revisions to our software, within the next 2 weeks.

 

Nektar Impact products have already been tested and verified to work with OS X 10.11

[fisherking]

I'll second that with a notice from Nektar for Panorama controllers.

 

NEKTAR PANORAMA & OS X 10.11 COMPATIBILITY

 

 

Apple are releasing OS X 10.11 (El Capitan) on September 30.

 

We have found some issues during the process of testing Panorama with the latest beta version of OS X 10.11 that we currently are working on resolving.

 

Panorama of course will be compatible with OS X 10.11 but an update to Panorama software will most likely be required. We therefore recommend that you initially postpone updating to OS X 10.11 on any computer that you need to work with Panorama.

 

We expect to have completed all testing and needed revisions to our software, within the next 2 weeks.

 

Nektar Impact products have already been tested and verified to work with OS X 10.11

 

2 weeks? good to see developers who step up. i'd love to get an email like that from NI...

[StudioQ1]

I appreciated the Gobbler email because not only did they warn about their compatibility they gave you an announcement of other manufacturers who gave warnings.

[hypnotik]

this thread became so epic

 

go back to your music kids

[Ashermusic]

https://ask.audio/articles/5-reasons-musicians-producers-and-djs-should-avoid-updating-to-os-x-1011-el-capitan-today

[amiracam]

apparently Gobbler, Native Instruments and others do not currently work under El Capitan , I got this from Gobbler this morn, I'm guessing many on this list did as well:

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------

Hey Charles>,

 

With the release of OS X 10.11 El Capitan around the corner, we’d like to strongly recommend that you NOT upgrade just yet. At this time, we cannot guarantee Gobbler 2.0 app compatibility with El Capitan.

 

Additionally, a number of DAW and plugin publishers suggest delaying the upgrade - see statements from Slate Digital, Native Instruments, Arturia, and Steinberg.

 

Please see the Gobbler Knowledge Base for more information.

 

Thanks for your attention,

The Gobbler Team

[xgman]

apparently Gobbler, Native Instruments and others do not currently work under El Capitan , I got this from Gobbler this morn, I'm guessing many on this list did as well:

 

 

-----------------------------------------------------

Hey Charles>,

 

With the release of OS X 10.11 El Capitan around the corner, we’d like to strongly recommend that you NOT upgrade just yet. At this time, we cannot guarantee Gobbler 2.0 app compatibility with El Capitan.

 

Additionally, a number of DAW and plugin publishers suggest delaying the upgrade - see statements from Slate Digital, Native Instruments, Arturia, and Steinberg.

 

Please see the Gobbler Knowledge Base for more information.

 

Thanks for your attention,

The Gobbler Team

 

Same here and I got a similar response from UAD on my Apollo. Bottom line is EL Captain is the single most NON friendly Audio device update ever to come out of an OSX update. I've been updating OSX since Jaguar and have never, ever seen such severe incompatibilities on day one as this. It really is quite disheartening to me.

[amiracam]

well, that sucks, I use UAD as well, not checked with FabFilter

[fisherking]

https://ask.audio/articles/5-reasons-musicians-producers-and-djs-should-avoid-updating-to-os-x-1011-el-capitan-today

 

hey, if it's an article on the internet, i'd better listen! here's a good one (from that article):

 

"Time Machine is great. Carbon Copy Cloner is great. If you’re using these and you feel like trying out El Capitan and have some spare time to revert to a previous backup if you should need to, then go ahead. But if you haven’t backed up your Mac in a while and plan on updating, we’d advise against that level of bravery!"

 

seriously, if you haven't backed up your mac in a while and plan on upgrading, you're a fool. in fact, if you haven't backed up your mac and DON'T plan on updating...same thing.

 

def seeing a lot of developers with issues, so yes...one should proceed (or not) with caution.

 

here, these work: fabfilter, sugarbytes, izotope. u-he synths. dune2, spire, valhalla reverbs. volumeshaper 4. spark, tremor, serum. microtonic. and with some fiddling: massive. battery 4. replika. nuance. nicky romero kick...

[Ashermusic]

Yes, you can restore from those backups, but it takes literally hours.

 

Bottom line, in addition to me, and I have been using computers to make music since 1990 and have written 3 books on Logic Pro, a large number of hardware and software developers have now told us "not yet" and a respected online audio magazine has also.

 

So a wise person, I think, would agree that it is imprudent unless you daily use only a small amount of third party stuff that you have verified works .

 

But people will do what people will do.

[fisherking]

 

But people will do what people will do.

 

exactly, thanks! 8)

[mconnelly]

mcconelly, i don't see how disabling SIP would help with AU validation; that's not a system-level issue...

 

SIP mandates that apps and plugins can only have data in certain folders. It seems like there are plugins and drivers (including things like iLok) that put data (often just things like presets, but still) in other places and SIP has the potential to cause at least some of the problems. Has anyone tried disabling SIP, and does it help with any of the issues?

 

Nobody suffers from not immediately being able to use the latest OS pre-release or right after release.

 

Not many have to use new OS right after release but one example is someone who has a hardware failure and has to buy a new mac which is only available with the latest OS. Having software not work can be a major issue.

 

 

Certainly we can debate whether devs have an "obligation" to support an OS from day 1. But some are and some aren't, and the ones that do are more inclined to get my respect and my cash.

 

At the very least, companies could give some info about what they know at this point. And it would be nice if that actually had some detail about what they need to fix and if they have a timeline when they're hoping to have it done. It's hard to give the benefit of the doubt that they started working on things, and not assume that they didn't start looking at it until now.

[xgman]

Do any of these audio interface and plugin issues go away if you disable SIP via utility/terminal in the Recovery partition? (see above we are thinking alike)

[amiracam]

sorry, pardon my ignorance, what's SIP ?

[xgman]

sorry, pardon my ignorance, what's SIP ?

 

System Integrity Protection. (or in other words, lockdown of some system directories) New in EC. (first thing I would disable personally)

[Eric Cardenas]

System Integrity Protection - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[mconnelly]

There are some major changes to AU and to the way the system behaves in general. AU updates are supposed to remain compatible but there are always growing pains. Hopefully these changes should bring improvements, both better stability as well as the possibility of more features for plugins.

 

SIP or System Integrity Protection which includes things like limiting which directories software can install files into. Tech info here, for anyone interested in the nuts and bolts the full review is a long but good read.

 

http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/09/os-x-10-11-el-capitan-the-ars-technica-review/8/#h1

 

Also they updated the AU standard to version 3 (version 2 came out in 2002). Hosts are still supposed to be compatible with AU2 but seems like a potential source of the issues.

 

Video and linked PDF from this years WWDC session about audio units. I haven't been through it all yet but I assume it's also long and technical.

https://developer.apple.com/videos/wwdc/2015/?id=508

[fisherking]

if, for example, you try to install ilok software, and you can't...you can disable SIP (reboot into recovery mode, open terminal, type:

 

csrutil disable then, after confirmation, type reboot

 

(later, after all is said & done, same boot-into recovery, but this time: csrutil enable.)

 

again, i don't think this will have any effect on AU validations; only on software installed system-level (i disabled it to install bartender, and customize some icons, etc)...

[xgman]

Some people have had some luck with some of the issues like with NI plugs, to restore some of the AU cache files from a Yosemite version. Not sure if that will mess up that version 3 update referred to in the above post though in some way. I do feel like Apple left us hanging a bit here. Dev's can only do so much, so fast. yes I know we are not forced to upgrade, but still..

[Ashermusic]

As some of you may know, I am EastWest's Online Coordinator. Here is the word from EW:

 

Please be advised EW plug-ins (PLAY and SPACES) do not pass the AUDIO UNITS validation in Mac OS X 10.11 and Logic Pro. We have been in contact with Apple regarding a solution but at this time EW users (and other audio companies posting similar warnings) should not upgrade to the El Capitan release.

[revdave]

Hi all,

 

Quite the spicy thread!

 

Well, I didn't read all of it but I would like to add a very simple solution (may have been mentioned already) to instant-update-itis, of which I subscribe to also.

 

SIMPLE SOLUTION:

- get an extra external drive

- do a full backup to it

- boot from it and APPLY you're OS X update to the backup

- now you can have all the fun you want testing out the new OS and still boot up your main OS to get some work done

 

dave

[fisherking]

Hi all,

 

Quite the spicy thread!

 

Well, I didn't read all of it but I would like to add a very simple solution (may have been mentioned already) to instant-update-itis, of which I subscribe to also.

 

SIMPLE SOLUTION:

- get an extra external drive

- do a full backup to it

- boot from it and APPLY you're OS X update to the backup

- now you can have all the fun you want testing out the new OS and still boot up your main OS to get some work done

 

dave

 

even simpler: stay on the OS you're on (especially if everything works), and wait until you're sure that your plugins are 10.11 compatible (of course, lol, that's not what i did, but i can understand being cautious).

 

we get caught up in 'new' sometimes, and forget that the work (in this case, the music), is the most important thing...

[Icaras]

UPDATE! El Capitan 10.11.1 Public Beta 3 has finally fixed my NI plug-ins!

 

validation result: successfully validated

 

updating properties of AU FM8 by Native Instruments…done.

 

[xgman]

UPDATE! El Capitan 10.11.1 Public Beta 3 has finally fixed my NI plug-ins!

 

validation result: successfully validated

 

updating properties of AU FM8 by Native Instruments…done.

 

Great news!

[boiev]

CRITICAL compatibility warning with the upcoming Mac OS X 10.11 El Capitan upgrade

Before upgrading to the latest version of Mac OS X – version 10.11 El Capitan, please consider these potentially serious issues concerning your KOMPLETE, TRAKTOR, and MASCHINE products. Two major issues have been identified:

1. NI plug-ins do not pass the AUDIO UNITS validation in Mac OS X 10.11 – Logic Pro affected

In Mac OS X 10.11, Native Instruments AUDIO UNITS plug-ins will not pass the AU validation and will therefore not be available in Logic Pro. The root cause of this issue has been identified and a solution is currently being developed in close contact with Apple.

2. Incompatibility with some older NI hardware

There are compatibility issues between some older NI devices and Apple’s upcoming operating system. This issue triggers a 'kernel panic' – this serious problem will crash the connected computer immediately, resulting in loss of any unsaved work, or serious disruption of a performance.

The following hardware is affected:

TRAKTOR KONTROL S4 (MK1)

TRAKTOR KONTROL X1 (MK1)

TRAKTOR AUDIO 2 (MK1)

AUDIO 8 DJ

AUDIO 4 DJ

AUDIO 2 DJ

MASCHINE (MK1)

GUITAR RIG 3 (RIG KONTROL 3 hardware)

There are beta drivers already available that fix this issue. Updated drivers will be released as soon as they have been fully tested on OS X 10.11 – shortly after Apple releases OS X 10.11 to the public.

Download the beta drivers here

To keep your system working normally with the affected products, we strongly recommend waiting before upgrading your computer to OS X 10.11 El Capitan until these issues have been fully solved by either Native Instruments or Apple.

Stay up to date on all future developments regarding Mac OS X 10.11 compatibility here

Thank you for your attention,

The Native Instruments team

 

Also similar notifications from Steinberg, Arturia, etc.

 

Delay of gratification people, delay of gratification.

 

fortunate here, am using Massive, and Replika, without issue (AFTER, of course, resolving the issue; in my case, replacing the AU cache from a yosemite backup)...

 

what cache did you mean? What files i have to move from TM backup for solve this problem?

[Jordi Torres]

fortunate here, am using Massive, and Replika, without issue (AFTER, of course, resolving the issue; in my case, replacing the AU cache from a yosemite backup)...

 

what cache did you mean? What files i have to move from TM backup for solve this problem?

 

As per the post above yours, 10.11.1 Public Beta 3 takes cares of the validation problem, so no need for workarounds.

 

J.