Sascha Franck Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 There are what I call "system specific issues" and what I call "bugs" and I know not everybody agrees with me about how I define them. For me, a bug happens on on many users rigs, or all users. If it is only e. g. 5% I call it system specific, not a bug. So, that makes beatmapping a "system specific issue" - fine. But in that case there should be even more of a need to get it fixed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 There are what I call "system specific issues" and what I call "bugs" and I know not everybody agrees with me about how I define them. For me, a bug happens on on many users rigs, or all users. If it is only e. g. 5% I call it system specific, not a bug. So, that makes beatmapping a "system specific issue" - fine. But in that case there should be even more of a need to get it fixed. Again, like most businesses, Apple developers are likely going to fix first that which is easier to fix, is fairly universally a problem, and is among the features that the most users use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha Franck Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Again, like most businesses, Apple developers are likely going to fix first that which is easier to fix, is fairly universally a problem, and is among the features that the most users use. Frankly put, in this case I don't exactly care whether it's among something "most users" use. Beatmapping (or whatever it's called in other sequencers, "reclocking" and what not) is kinda like an essential feature for any modern sequencer. Has even been like ages. And it has never been something "most users" would do - but an *extremely* essential thing for those who do. And Apple apparently hasn't been adressing this since - what? - 6 years already. Tell me about "most users" all you want, but that's no proper quality assurance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Again, like most businesses, Apple developers are likely going to fix first that which is easier to fix, is fairly universally a problem, and is among the features that the most users use. Frankly put, in this case I don't exactly care whether it's among something "most users" use. Beatmapping (or whatever it's called in other sequencers, "reclocking" and what not) is kinda like an essential feature for any modern sequencer. Has even been like ages. And it has never been something "most users" would do - but an *extremely* essential thing for those who do. And Apple apparently hasn't been adressing this since - what? - 6 years already. Tell me about "most users" all you want, but that's no proper quality assurance. No problem with your being annoyed by it, just saying I doubt it's going to change, and my guess is, and it's only a guess admittedly, is that users of Cubase, DP, PT, and others have similar things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) A bug that only happens on certain systems is still a bug! How would you like to be in the minority case where some “bug” makes logic unusable to you? A bug is a bug if the program doesn’t work right and there are many system differences that can show or hide bugs, It doesn’t make them any less of a bug. And shame on Apple for ignoring some of them for so long. Sometimes seemingly broken behavior can be attributed to user pilot error and when such is the case then experienced users can and should share their knowledge of the product so that other users can avoid pilot errors. We see this often with pdc related problems that some people report. But unless you know the specific pilot error being committed then it’s foolish to sweep broken behavior under the rug and dismissing it as anything less then broken behavior, which is the definition of “bug”. But it is true that often times unexpected behavior can turn out to be pilot error, but not always and just because there might only be one person experiencing it doesn’t make it any less of a bug. Make enough noise and the bug might get fixed. Edited June 16, 2019 by Dewdman42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashermusic Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 A bug that only happens on certain systems is still a bug! How would you like to be in the minority case where some “bug” makes logic unusable to you. A bug is a bug if the program doesn’t work right and there are many system differences that can show or hide bugs, it it doesn’t make them any less of a bug. And shame on Apple for ignoring some of them for so long. Sometimes seemingly broken behavior can be attributed to user pilot error and when such is the case then experienced users can and should share their knowledge of the product so that other users can avoid pilot errors. We see this often with pdc related problems that some people report. But unless you know the specific pilot error being committed then it’s foolish to sweep broken behavior under the rug and dismissing it as anything less then broken behavior, which is the definition of “bug”. But it is true that often times unexpected behavior can turn out to be pilot error, but not always and just because there might only be one person experiencing it doesn’t make it any less of a bug. Make enough noise and the bug might get fixed. I have experienced times when I had a "bug" that few others could reproduce. But again, I consider those system specific, not bugs. Somehow, I managed to create music in Logic Pro until it either got fixed or I found a workaround. There are no perfect DAWs. But sure, be a squeaky wheel. It makes it more likely the developers will fix it if enough people complain. Not pushing back against that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 (edited) Work arounds from experienced users such as yourself will always be appreciated. Complaining about people reporting their problems as bugs is not in the least bit helpful System specific bugs are still bugs if the system is officially supported. Edited June 16, 2019 by Dewdman42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kokobeware Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Noticed I can select a bunch of tracks in the arrange page and route the output or sends for all selected. Huge timesaver without having to open the mixer to route. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha Franck Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Well, talking about workarounds: There usually are some. And it's fine to make use of them - anything else would be stupid, because, as has been said, pretty much each and every software *does* struggle with bugs, shortcomings and open wishlists up to the wazoo. This is even more true for complexed beasts such as sequencers, which have to manage a wide stretch between pleasing Joe Average and some folks with rather esoteric demands. Anyhow, sometimes there's bugs where there isn't a workaround. The messed up beatmapping is one of those. Sure, there's smart tempo, there's a partial workaround of creating MIDI guide tracks first and do your tempo calculations with those (seems to work a bit better) and maybe something else. But once these aren't sufficient, you will have to resort to - well - beatmapping (unless you want to cut all your audio into the smallest snipplets ever - which I actually don't consider being a "workaround" anymore but a most royal PITA). In addition, as said, this has been something that was working marvellously well for over a decade - so there might as well be people purchasing a newer version of Logic based on an expectation that it would still work properly - and IMO that's a pretty valid expectation. Just that it isn't working. It's so much bug city that it's almost impossible to work around it. Given all that, 6 years are just too long for something that is a) a promised feature and b) an indispensable tool for certain folks to get adressed. In case something like that can't be fixed, it's back to the drawing board. Alternatively, take that feature out. They did that with the chord track already, so why not just remove beatmapping entirely as well instead of presenting people an empty promise? That way, at least nobody would expect it to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raddler Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Regards my earlier post of.... "Might have been answered, but is anyone noticing that the mouse cursor no longer disappears when moving the channel fader slider up and down? Am I missing something?" So, what I noticed is that the behaviour is intermittent. Sometimes the cursor disappears, sometimes not. Can someone please help me confirm this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha Franck Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 So, what I noticed is that the behaviour is intermittent. Sometimes the cursor disappears, sometimes not. Can someone please help me confirm this? Confirmed. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't dissapear. The question being what the intended behaviour should be - so far it was the cursor to dissapear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raddler Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 So, what I noticed is that the behaviour is intermittent. Sometimes the cursor disappears, sometimes not. Can someone please help me confirm this? Confirmed. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't dissapear. The question being what the intended behaviour should be - so far it was the cursor to dissapear. Thanks Sascha. Good to know it's not just a bug on my end. Yeah, I think normal behaviour is that the cursor disappears and that's what I've happily gotten used to. Hopefully it gets addressed. Oh, and btw. The faulty behaviour extends to moving the sends and pan knobs as well. Those are particularly annoying. Oddly enough, the arrange track volume sliders behave normally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 it isn't happening to me, but try to see if you can identify any other specific things that causes it to happen, only certain types of faders or something like that. If you have specific info and report it to apple, this is the kind of thing that is probably a quick fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raddler Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 it isn't happening to me, but try to see if you can identify any other specific things that causes it to happen, only certain types of faders or something like that. If you have specific info and report it to apple, this is the kind of thing that is probably a quick fix. Yes, will definitely report it. If you wouldn't mind keeping an awareness on it and reporting back with your findings if they change, that would be appreciated. During one session, the problem seemed to have gone away as everything was acting normal, but when I opened the project a second time the issue was back. Hard to pin point why this may be happening but it's predominantly noticeable on the channel faders/pan/sends and also on the mixer faders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 other conditions to watch out for, if you have other windows open, if different screen resolution in effect, etc.. Try to keep track of everything that might be different, even if its seemingly unrelated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha Franck Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 it isn't happening to me, but try to see if you can identify any other specific things that causes it to happen, only certain types of faders or something like that. If you have specific info and report it to apple, this is the kind of thing that is probably a quick fix. I detected a pattern already. With any other window focused, the cursor doesn't disappear when you do a "first touch" in the mixer panel. Once in there, the behaviour is back to normal (cursor disspears). So far this is absolutely reproduceable for me. Open arrange/main page, open the mixer below, select something in your arrange, then touch a mixer fader = cursor doesn't dissapear. Same when opening a plugin (which automatically focuses it's window). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 same behavior here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raddler Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 it isn't happening to me, but try to see if you can identify any other specific things that causes it to happen, only certain types of faders or something like that. If you have specific info and report it to apple, this is the kind of thing that is probably a quick fix. I detected a pattern already. With any other window focused, the cursor doesn't disappear when you do a "first touch" in the mixer panel. Once in there, the behaviour is back to normal (cursor disspears). So far this is absolutely reproduceable for me. Open arrange/main page, open the mixer below, select something in your arrange, then touch a mixer fader = cursor doesn't dissapear. Same when opening a plugin (which automatically focuses it's window). cursor_dissapear.gif Ah, very interesting. Same behaviour for me too. We're getting somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonljacobi Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 No doubt something to do with the optimizing the mixer redraw. Apparently it’s at least temporarily messed up themes as well. What is beat mapping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha Franck Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 What is beat mapping? When you have an existing musical performance recorded without a click but want your sequencer to follow the original tempo fluctuations, so you can make use of the sequencers bar-oriented offerings, you will have to create a tempo map/list following the original. This is supposed to be doable by creating transient markers in the source audio file and then connect them to appropriate bar-based positions of Logics time ruler. The feature can be found in Logics global tracks (you may need to CTL-click once the global tracks are opened to see this option, by default it's hidden). Used to work a treat in previous versions and is now polluted with all sorts of nasty events coming along, starting with dissapearing waveforms in the source audio track and ending with the source track being moved (which defenitely is the *very* last thing you want during this procedure). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nahmani Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 What is beat mapping? Logic Pro X: Beat mapping overview Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facej Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 regarding cursor on faders...as you can see in the video previously posted...the arrow cursor turns in to a tiny line (white/black/gray as needed) that indicates which fader you are moving, and importantly, gets the arrow out of the way of obscuring the scale/tick marks on the fader. I like getting the arrow out of my sight. I observe the same behavior in 10.4.4. The "inconsistency" is, if you select a track in the arrange window, then move the cursor to a non-selected track in the mixer and drag, the cursor does not change. The cursor changes to the little "dash" when you move the fader on the selected channel strip. Once the cursor change has occurred the "cursor on fader" remains the little dash-line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonljacobi Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Ah. Thanks. I was familiar with the concept, but not the term. Probably forgot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ploki Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 so far so good! i still prefer fabfilter pro-DS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 so far so good! i still prefer fabfilter pro-DS. agreed (but good to see apple moving this sort of thing forward). fabfilter rules! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayswater Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 Did anyone tried to test if Logic can spread a track load on multiple cores? Aka new project, create a single track, place a heavy-hitting CPU instrument (like oversampled Serum, or u-he Diva), then place a bunch of insert plugins that support oversampling and max them out and see if a single track - that with older Logic versions would instantly overload the audio buffer - now gets processed over multiple cores and avoid overload? I can’t test it right now, I’m on vacation. But if it does, it would be the first DAW to do that (apart from Reaper I think). That is unlikely to ever change. You can't really parallelize a serial plugin chain. Perhaps you can spread the load over a chain of Aux channels. Maybe you could also spread the load over several instances of the VI? Each instance with a different note range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajscorpio Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 What Happened to "Tonggle Track On/Offs" key command.. ? it is not working here..it only turns the track OFF but if I hit it again it won't turn it ON again.. any one else is having this BUG ? Yes, I have the same bug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facej Posted June 16, 2019 Share Posted June 16, 2019 The "Toggle Track On" command - option-M - will turn off tracks. It no longer turns them back on. 10.4.4 properly "toggles" the "on" state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 (edited) That is unlikely to ever change. You can't really parallelize a serial plugin chain. Perhaps you can spread the load over a chain of Aux channels. Maybe you could also spread the load over several instances of the VI? Each instance with a different note range. Not really. You can’t start the second plugin in the chain until the first plugin has finished its processing on the process block. Audio doesn’t stream through plugins like it does through guitar pedals. There is a process block of data and each plugin gets its turn to operate on the block of data. The second plugin in the chain needs to see the final results of the first plugin for that process block before it can do anything. in theory a daw could possibly break up process blocks into smaller chunks of time so that while plugin 2 is working on the results from plugin 1, another thread could start working on the next process block for plugin 1. But what if the plugin is time based in some way such that the results from plugin 2 need to be taken into account by plugin 1 in the next process block, etc. Fundamentally a plugin chain needs to happen serially because the actual computed results of each step along the way effect what the next plugin gets as input. There may be some advanced situations where a daw could do some smart stuff to parallelize more, but remember that all the plugins have a fairly simple callback interface with the daw. Generally it’s probably better for the daw to keep things simple. When you have more then a few channels playing back it’s all moot anyway as all cores will be working away. Edited June 17, 2019 by Dewdman42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenTOAST Posted June 17, 2019 Share Posted June 17, 2019 That is unlikely to ever change. You can't really parallelize a serial plugin chain. Perhaps you can spread the load over a chain of Aux channels. Maybe you could also spread the load over several instances of the VI? Each instance with a different note range. With u-he Diva I don’t even need to play chords in order to get a fairly high core usage. Regarding serial auxes, in my experience they still share the same core, I never noticed an improvement. Fun fact, on my Macbook Pro, in the summer, my winter projects would stop playing due to CPU thermal throttling (22 Celsius indoor during winter vs 24-28 during the summer). 3.1 throttled to 2.6 Ghz. So I learned that 400 MHz can make a huge difference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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