Apple brings Final Cut Pro and Logic Pro to iPad

[Dox]

I had to quit using Adobe after years of use and the same with Microsoft Word. For the occasional freelance user like me subscription is death.

[ozinga]

I do not mind paying $50-$100 per year for a software that I have not paid anything for the past 10 years. As long as it is well maintained of course. That is the only thing matters for me.

Every year I spend more than that for plugins or samples that I regret later. Lol.

[FLH3]

2 hours ago, fisherking said:

why don't we all wait and see how things go before the sky falls...??....

I totaly agree, don't cry before being hurt.

Logic, with its relatively low price comparing to the competition, is an appeal product for Apple (appeal, apple...) and it's hard to believe they could abandon this "locomotive" which gives them the possibility to sell their hardware to the pro and pro-sumer markets.

[Eon]

15 hours ago, redgreenblue said:

I hate hate hate subscription software, but if the Mac version of Logic were also $50 it would take 15 years to get to the price of Ableton Suite, and only 9 years for the Basic version. Just to give it perspective.

And don't forget that during this 15 years you also have to pay for major updates! So its much more.

I don't get people who against it. 5 bucks is a cup of coffee...

[analogika]

9 minutes ago, Eon said:

And don't forget that during this 15 years you also have to pay for major updates! So its much more.

I don't get people who against it. 5 bucks is a cup of coffee...

5 bucks for Logic

25 bucks for the Waves sub (because three of my must-haves aren‘t in the basic variant)

15-25 bucks for Plugin Alliance

plus IK Multimedia, Waldorf, Softube, iZotope, etc., etc., should they ever go sub-only. 
 

Plus eventually subscription for Logic on Mac. Plus Final Cut Pro, which was a no-brainer purchase, but which I only use irregularly.

If everything goes subscription, it’s easily 200+€ a month just to keep stuff available that I might need occasionally — even if I cancel and re-sub on a per-project basis, that means that a „quick bounce of project stems“ for whatever turns into a day and a half of office time for subbing and cancelling, plus however many dozens of dollars just for the subscriptions for stuff I could have just bought and had sitting there. 
 

That’s totally — pardon me —$&@+% up for anybody whose studio is only part of their income, and thus time and financial budget. 

Edited May 10, 2023 by analogika

[Eon]

2 minutes ago, analogika said:

5 bucks for Logic

25 bucks for the Waves sub (because three of my must-haves aren‘t in the basic variant)

15-25 bucks for Plugin Alliance

plus IK Multimedia, Waldorf, Softube, iZotope, etc., etc., should they ever go sub-only. 

If everything goes subscription, it’s easily 200+€ a month just to keep stuff available that I might need occasionally — even if I cancel and re-sub on a per-project basis, that means that a „quick bounce of project stems“ for whatever turns into a day and a half of office time for subbing and cancelling, plus however many dozens of dollars just for the subscriptions for stuff I could have just bought and had sitting there. 
 

That’s totally — pardon me —$&@+% up for anybody whose studio is only part of their income, and thus time and financial budget. 

I dumped Waves, PA and all other s#!+ on subscription. Its not worth it at all. There are better alternatives in 2023.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Eon

[analogika]

Just now, Eon said:

I dumped Waves, PA and all other s#!+ on subscription. Its not worth it all. There are better alternatives in 2023.

No, there aren’t. 
 

Thankfully, Waves got handed a big stick by their customers to beat the s#!+ out of themselves with and backtracked, and Plugin Alliance has the best combination of outright purchase, subscription, and various tiers of rent-to-own that I’ve seen. I’m super green with that. 

[des99]

15 hours ago, analogika said:

Logic is developed at the old Emagic headquarters in Rellingen, near Hamburg, Germany.

Indeed - I've been there, got the mug. Apple also has quite a lot of audio division development in Cupertino, and while most of the original emagic team stayed in Hamburg, some of the emagic people went there, including Gerhard, and there are other people working on Logic and the other audio apps which are in Cupertino (I'm pretty sure the Camel people went there, as did others), as are the Pro Workflow team, and pretty much all of the product and pro app management etc.

[Zipfunk]

This has to be the busiest post ice seen here in a long time. 70+ posts since I commented on polanoid’s original post. 
seems like a sensitive topic. 
I don’t think anyone likes subscription based software but I assume most people here make money with logic(?)

if so then its another bill that you have to pass on to your clients and the price of doing business. 

[David Nahmani]

Software used to be very expensive. In the not so distant past, some of us have spent over $5,000 on Logic, Space Designer, the ES2, the Loop Packs, Camel Alchemy etc. Then Apple bought it and sold the entire suite of software for only $999, and finally $499 shortly thereafter.

In December 2011, they've cut the price of that suite to only $199. Ever since, it has been Apple's model to sell underpriced software in order to get customers into their ecosystem. They want us to get a desktop Mac, maybe two, a MacBook, an iPad, an iPhone, maybe a watch and a TV, a music subscription, maybe phones for our kids, etc. So they lured us by making great software at a very appealing price point. I personally feel that it was worth it. 

But I don't believe that anyone at Apple knew, back in 2011, that they would continue working on Logic Pro, improving, adding new plug-ins, a free Logic Remote companion for the iPad, new sound library content, new features, for the next 12 years without charging their customers? 

So at some point maybe they're looking at some new way to charge the customers. They're releasing Logic Pro for the iPad for $50/year. I feel that's reasonable? Obviously not everyone will jump on that offer and many of us will continue to be perfectly happy working with Logic Pro on our desktop, the same as we've always done. But for the wealthier customers who can afford a recent iPad, they can probably afford to shell out $50/year for an iPad version of Logic Pro, I suppose. 

Now the big question is, will Logic Pro on the desktop follow suit? That we really have no idea. I see no reason to start panicking just yet. We've seen Apple drop prices, get rid of the XSkey to reduce software piracy, get rid of the Windows version to make sure we get into the Mac ecosystem... I don't suppose they'll change that anytime soon. They know that the reason Photoshop got so huge and dominant in their market was because everyone was pirating it (so: because the software was basically free, everyone started using it and that's how it became an industry standard), and they don't want to make Logic Pro expensive to the point that the younger crowd will start looking for a cheaper alternative. 

Personally, I am fairly confident that even if the price structure changes, it probably won't be prohibitive. That wouldn't really make sense if I look at the pricing history. 

[jonparadise]

The more I think about it, the more the subscriptions make sense for Apple.

Selling the iPad versions of Logic Pro (and Final Cut Pro) for hundreds of dollars is a no go. Even selling for $50-100 would probably put a huge chunk of potential customers off. There are exceptions, but apps generally seem to have a much lower price ceiling than desktop equivalents.

A cheap subscription allows a much larger user base to dip in and out without having to outlay a lot of cash.

Another benefit of subs for Apple is user data. They'll be able to see in much more detail who is using the app regularly. Which age groups and demographics continue to pay on a monthly basis, and which ones only sign up once in a while. This could influence which features they develop going forward.

Edited May 10, 2023 by jonparadise

[fisherking]

4 hours ago, Dox said:

But only 4 years to meet the price of Logic, which is about the time it takes to learn it well enought to be reasonably confident and competent in using it!

i started using logic 14 years ago. i started using it professionally right away. first session, i had to call a friend in a panic, i couldn't figure out how to get a mix out of it (then i learned about 'bounce'... 🤣)

in my estimation, you can use logic from the start, especially if (like me) you're coming from something else (here, it was 'reason').  but it's an endless learning curve... i always learn new things, better ways of doing something, tricks i didn't know were there.

so, for me, pretty-quickly using it. getting 'confident and competent' with it is always, ongoing.

finally, bear in mind, if it was $50 a year (& i think it could be more, IF...), you'd pay off only that one version in 4 years (at $200 per release).

either way, i'll cross the bridge when. & if LP does go subscription, i'll grumble about it... while filling in the subscription form.

Edited May 10, 2023 by fisherking

[des99]

It could be these iPad pro apps are testing how the pro market segment responds to subscription pricing, as they look for service revenue opportunities across their business. I don't think they'd entertain subscription pricing for consumer apps, their consumer apps, even the "work" stuff, was made free a long time ago - but they may be thinking the pro userbase is more committed to those apps, and is using these tools professionally or for their livelihood, and they are already so inexpensive that maybe the pro userbase is much more receptive to subscription based pricing.

Before the iPad app announcement, I could certainly see the arguments that Apple might like to pursue subscriptions on Pro Apps, but I figured the revenue was a drop in the bucket compared to their more consumer services, like Apple TV+ etc, so they probably wouldn't bother. The fact that these new iPad pro apps are subscription-based now makes me think it's *way* more likely that Apple would want to go in that direction. And probably the reception of the iPad pro app subscriptions will be an indicator of how successful translating that to the desktop will be. (Or maybe they've already made that decision and the iPad apps are just "softening us up" in advance...)

Honestly, while I abhor subscriptions for *products* (instead of services, which is more reasonable), I think Apple could well get away with subscription pricing for Logic and FCP, as long as it wasn't outrageous. Given that the userbase all has licenses for Logic/FCP 10, *if* they were going to go subscription *only* (and that's a big if), it would likely coincide with a major version upgrade (ie Logic 11), as *no one* would have licenses and their entire userbase would be faced with a $200 upgrade per app. Being sub-only would lessen that up front bill and spread it out down the line, and ultimately bring in more revenue, and increase that services revenue that Apple are looking at as being their answer to falling iPhone demand/revenue over time.

And if they add a subs as an option (perhaps even in the short term) but retain permanent licensing, then it's the best of both worlds, users can choose what works for them best, and we don't really have much reason to complain.

My gut says: Logic Pro 11 / Final Cut Pro 11, subscription only pricing, sometime this year.

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by des99

[StudioQ1]

5 hours ago, David Nahmani said:

Indeed. @Q420 you can find the Ronson Apple Loops by choosing the pack "Watch de Sound" or you can start with the Starter Grid called Crate Digging: 

Ty so much. I actually came back to logic in 10.7 and somehow missed this! Mind officially blown 

[fisherking]

we're all just speculating. and whatever comes next, we'll deal with when it happens. either way, our current versions won't stop working; we may just reach that point where we can't update our OS, or our hardware... without (then) needing the latest logic version.

i've learned (and not that well!) to confront things when they're there to confront, and not panic in advance.

Edited May 10, 2023 by fisherking

[Zipfunk]

2 minutes ago, fisherking said:

i've learned (and not that well!) to confront things when they're there to confront, and not panic in advance.

... so now this line has me panicking... 🤣

[fisherking]

amazing that this thread now has 105 replies. my expert assumption is, when there's a 'logic 11 goes subscription!' thread, we'll see even more replies (maybe 106)...

[Deif]

The incoming Logic 10.7.8 is mentioned in the system requirements for Logic for iPad. 

[Zipfunk]

@polanoid will be the OP and again we'll lose two days of productivity again.

Thanks polanoid (said sarcastically) 🤣

[des99]

Just now, Deif said:

The incoming Logic 10.7.8 is mentioned in the system requirements for Logic for iPad.

Yes, already mentioned earlier:

 

[joeflyer59]

I don’t mind the subscription model too much, esp when it’s this cheap.  I’ve an M2 IPad Pro that I use as a laptop, so I, personally, am really looking forward to this… and while I will always prefer to work in my studio, it will be nice to know that when I travel, I can just drop $5 and get some more work done.  
 

I find the current GarageBand iOS round trip workflow to be absolutely useless for anything except making some arrangement changes - so however abbreviated Logic will be on iOS, I’m sure it will be miles better than GB.  I’m hoping it will be on par and even better than Auria.

Fingers crossed!

[fisherking]

7 minutes ago, Zipfunk said:

@polanoid will be the OP and again we'll lose two days of productivity again.

Thanks polanoid (said sarcastically) 🤣

two days? i am not going back to work until we come to an agreement, and every forum member is 100% happy... no matter how long it takes 🤔

[Zipfunk]

2 minutes ago, fisherking said:

two days? i am not going back to work until we come to an agreement, and every forum member is 100% happy... no matter how long it takes 🤔

I'll save you a seat at the nursing home!!!

[jmob]

1 hour ago, analogika said:

5 bucks for Logic

25 bucks for the Waves sub (because three of my must-haves aren‘t in the basic variant)

15-25 bucks for Plugin Alliance

plus IK Multimedia, Waldorf, Softube, iZotope, etc., etc., should they ever go sub-only. 
 

Plus eventually subscription for Logic on Mac. Plus Final Cut Pro, which was a no-brainer purchase, but which I only use irregularly.

If everything goes subscription, it’s easily 200+€ a month just to keep stuff available that I might need occasionally — even if I cancel and re-sub on a per-project basis, that means that a „quick bounce of project stems“ for whatever turns into a day and a half of office time for subbing and cancelling, plus however many dozens of dollars just for the subscriptions for stuff I could have just bought and had sitting there. 
 

That’s totally — pardon me —$&@+% up for anybody whose studio is only part of their income, and thus time and financial budget. 

Yeah, subscriptions are like a giant squid with each tentacle just gorging on you. That being said, if you make your money in Music, it’s basically like getting logic on the iPad for free. I don’t have an iPad and I detest laptops so this really doesn’t affect me either way, but I feel your pain.

[FLH3]

The other problem I could see with the subcribtions things is you have to be connected to the internet, at least once per month, in order to lauch your app.

For the people who did their things in a remote location, with out any reliable global network access, it could be a problem.

Do I make a mistake? Don't the subscribtion apps require an internet access to check?

Edited May 10, 2023 by FLH3

[des99]

If we assume Logic (Mac) goes sub only, the pricing might be interesting. If they price it higher than the iPad app, they are signalling that the iPad version is less good/capable/"pro" than the *real* Mac version, and therefore sending mixed messaging about just how "pro" the iPad apps, and the iPad generally is.

So I'm wondering if (obviously this is all purely speculation as we don't know what is going to happen) they will *also* price Logic/FCP at $50/year as well, or maybe $75/year for both the Mac and iPad version.

[wonshu]

Either way, it'll likely be more expensive than in the past 10 years. So we will spend more money, that's for sure...

[polanoid]

1 hour ago, fisherking said:

and every forum member is 100% happy

that only happens on gearslutz

[des99]

2 minutes ago, polanoid said:

that only happens on gearslutz

[Dox]

1 hour ago, des99 said:

If we assume Logic (Mac) goes sub only, the pricing might be interesting. If they price it higher than the iPad app, they are signalling that the iPad version is less good/capable/"pro" than the *real* Mac version, and therefore sending mixed messaging about just how "pro" the iPad apps, and the iPad generally is.

So I'm wondering if (obviously this is all purely speculation as we don't know what is going to happen) they will *also* price Logic/FCP at $50/year as well, or maybe $75/year for both the Mac and iPad version.

How about competing with Protools at $279 per year subscription 🤢