Nektar Panorama P1 and Logic Pro. How do you like it?

[stratquebec]

Nektar Panorama P1 and Logic Pro. How do you like it, hate it,sold it, want it?

Seems interesting but the manual talks about Cubase and Reason, not a word about Logic...

[robinloops]

I am pretty sure it has native logic control emulation. So it connects to logic as a logic control or mackie universal controller. I really like this controller and will probably get one provided it does have native emulation and they ever make all the faders motorized. One motorized is cool for writing automation, but I need the faders to all update their positions when banking to keep things straight. Thst being said, the display probably compensated for that but then it also depends on how smoothly ‘pickup’ works when moving a fader past the parameter it’s set on in Logic.

 

There are some really good demos on YouTube controlling logic with it. I think the one done by the guy from Sweetwater is the one I liked most. Will look later.

[skijumptoes]

I own the P6 and it’s brilliant. However, the controls have become sticky (to the touch) over time, and the screen can be a little slow/clumsy to respond when you want to bank through parameter pages.

 

But, in terms of transparent DAW integration they’re superb. It’s a shame that Nektar are now going down the wrapper route with their new Panorama products, but hopefully they continue to support the transparent style of the P range.

 

So yeah, highly recommended as a Logic controller from me. The logic mapping is on their website somewhere, it very well featured.

[stratquebec]

Thanks for your inputs fellows. I'm on my side looking for the P1 which is the control surface only. I wonder if it works the same as on the P4 or P6? Videos I've seen featuring the P4 are very impressive but I haven't found any videos of guys using the P1 with Logic Pro X.

 

The Behringer X-Touch which has motorized fader is also something I consider because it's way cheaper than the real thing (MCU) but the P1 seems to me so intuitive and easy to use that even if the faders are not motorized, I would probably be happy with it. I wonder why I can't find any videos demonstrating the P1 and Logic pro?

[FlowerPower]

https://nektartech.com/logic-integration/

[stratquebec]

https://nektartech.com/logic-integration/

Ya impressive! So you own and use one. You're satisfied? Use it regurlarly? Ever enconter any problems?

You would be kind to share your pros and cons or some comments, recommendations? It would be very much appreciated.

Thank you!

[skijumptoes]

The P1 works exactly the same as P4/P6 minus the motor fader, my friend has one and it’s a great unit which he uses with a small keyboard controller as a portable laptop based setup.

 

If you want to control your mixer as a whole then the Mackie/x-touch route is best as motorised faders make a huge difference plus, as a bonus, you can flip the faders to control plugin elements such as ADSR envelop controls on synths for example.

 

But if you want it primarily to control synths as if they are hardware (ish) then the panoramas are best. Due to having more fixed controls to access (hardware which offers fixed controls and thus use of our muscle memory is always best), and I think the Panoramas have a bit more straight forward navigation ‘but’ not as snappy as Mackie.

 

It really depends what you want out of it, but in terms of integration both Mackie and/or Nektars own integration is very good and within Logic you can customise it a bit too.

[stratquebec]

Thanks a lot skijumptoes. Ya those motorized faders and the mcu flip mode are a big plus. Mixing and editing is my primary goal so I think I'm gonna wait and keep saving for the X-Touch. Or if ever Nektar launch a motorized P1 at a competitive price... Who knows!

 

Thanks again for your help skijumptoes!

[enossified]

I also use a P6.

 

The host integration is by brute force. Nektar creates firmware for each host they support that the user loads into the Panorama (it can hold the firmware for multiple hosts) that has premapped every control for you. The user installs a driver or script if the DAW itself requires one. It works as well as could be expected. For Logic, all the native devices (except MIDI plugins like the arpeggiator) are mapped for you by Nektar. Third party devices get mapped when first opened but the parameters will be in random order and pages are labeled by numbers, not names. There is a free editor for Logic users to open up the mapping files and reorder the parameters as you see fit.

 

The Panorama recognizes what DAW is present and loads the appropriate firmware when powered on. It even can switch between DAWs, such as when using Rewire to connect Reason to Logic (a key command on the Panorama allows it to switch focus to either Reason or Logic).

 

The P1 loses a few features, the biggest is the motorized fader. Unlike some other DAWs, Logic has no "relative" mode for slider controls. The parameter either jumps immediately to the slider position or only changes once the slider position passes through the current value. However, the motorized fader always reflects the track currently in focus and makes writing volume fader automation a lot easier (the endless encoders used for everything except track volume do not have this problem). The P1 also lacks the drum pads which in Logic can be used to set, cancel and select markers. Otherwise, the P1 is identical to the keyboards.

 

The Panorama user experience is very much like using a hardware workstation like a Motif, Fantom, Triton, Kronos, etc. You have to page through parameters but anything that can be automated in a native device can be controlled with a knob, slider or button. The screen clearly indicates the parameters under control and their value. Buttons allow zooming the Logic windows in and out, opening and closing windows for plugins and smart controls, browsing and selecting plugins, cycling through plugin presets, turning the arpeggiator on and off (even loads an arpeggiator if the track doesn't have one already), automation modes can be selected, setting loop points and punch points, enabling punching or looping and there is an undo button. While in the mixer mode, there is a tab that allows access to all instrument parameters in unoptimized order, so for some tweaks there is no need to switch to the actual instrument mode (where parameter order is optimized). There are things that cannot be controlled because Logic doesn't allow it...changing the tempo, for example. It should come as no surprise that there is no control of any editors, either.

 

The Nektarine software that was announced with the T series controllers auto-maps third party plugins only. It works very much like Native Instruments Komplete Kontrol software does, a plugin host with category browsing and multitimbral setups. Nektar maps all the factory presets for supported plugins, but the user has to map unsupported plugins manually and load any user presets into the browser manually. It supports subpages (P series has a 24 page limit and no subpages) to deal with plugins that have well over 200 parameters. All pages and subpages can be named, too. One interesting benefit is that Nektarine AU can load VSTs! I actually tried this and it works.

 

EDIT: Nektarine has been released for the P series to use with the Studio One DAW. It can be run in Logic but it is buggy, the display doesn't always update properly. Unlike a beta version I tried, it no longer interferes with native device control on other tracks. A recent update to the Nektar website says this about Panorama controlling third party plugins in Logic (emphasis is mine):

 

"Panorama communicates with Logic directly. There are no wrappers or separate software that forces you to change your workflow. This is what enables Panorama to map Logic’s default instruments, even though the instruments are native and not AU plugins. And Panorama allows you to control AU plugins in the same way. Paramaters are automatically controllable from Panorama and presented in the order delivered by the plugin so you get an immediate starting point. As with the default Logic plugins, mapping can be customized by creating and modifying Plists for each plugin. The included plist editor makes this an easy task even for a novice."

 

Apparently for Cubase there is a similar existing method of controlling third party VSTs that negates the need for Nektarine. However, when I asked Nektar support about when they would have an update for Reason's recent 10.4 release they mentioned it would include Nektarine.

 

END EDIT

 

I give the P series about an 8 out of 10, but only because Nektar is constrained by the Logic API itself (as are all controllers using the Mackie Control protocol).

 

Hope this helps.

Edited August 12, 2019 by enossified

[stratquebec]

Ok ! I'm reading your post enossified. Thanks for the details! I'll need to take time to re-read it again.

 

Just a quick input here. I quote you :"There are things that cannot be controlled because Logic doesn't allow it...changing the tempo, for example." Well in Logic You can via the environment assign a special fader to a control to set the tempo from 50 to 177 from any CC. The values are hard coded an restricted by the midi 128 steps. I don't know if the Panorama's would be able to map this environment fader...

[skijumptoes]

Mixing and editing is my primary goal so I think I'm gonna wait and keep saving for the X-Touch.

If you have a spare ipad then the Logic control app is well worth a try too, it's free and offers an immediate 'hands on' control of the Logic components. It's not the same as hardware, but it may give you an indication of what you may want to control outside of the mouse. Or rather 'IF' you will make use of it.

 

In truth, many controllers that people buy eventually get ignored as the mouse and monitor is such a tried and tested control solution. So be sure if you have a true need for such a controller, and it's not just a bit of gear lust rising up. Because there is always a separation between controller and DAW i find as they each have separate displays to acknowledge, fixed solutions like the Softube Console 1 get around that issue well.

 

I find the Mackie to be very strong when you're recording takes as you can quickly scrub and navigate the project, play/record/undo/set levels etc. At that point i guess it works well because you're focused within a smaller section of the song (In regards to track count). For final mixing they're not so good - 8 faders soon seems so few when you're in a loaded project and very small character counts on the display makes it harder - so it's quicker/more logical to use the mouse/mixer on-screen than it is to bank through and find it on the Mackie itself. Particularly if you're stacking tracks and want to expand/collapse them.

 

Mine sits in the corner where my amps and mics are, and that's why it gets much use (as a remote console), if it was on my desk besides the mouse and keyboard i don't think i'd use it a great deal if i'm 100% honest.

 

Sometimes i wonder if the single fader units (Like the faderport/x-touch one) are better on the same desk as a keyboard/mouse as you can stare at the screen, use the track up/down navigation buttons and then the motorised fader follows the track you're viewing, which to my mind seems quite natural. I'll try one someday i guess.

[stratquebec]

Ya the X-Touch One would be a interesting solution for simple track operation/automation couple using a motorized fader.

Presently yep, I use Logic Remote from time to time. Very handy user over-writable pads/ key commands mapping feature.

 

In front of me I have my wireless iMac Keyboard, my nanoKontrol2 and my Korg microKey. The Logic Pro AQA is assign to the microKey mod wheel. Works great. And at my right, I have my Alesis VI61. I've mapped a bunch of pots and knobs to mimic the behavior of the X-Touch One (or faderport'ish) solution. Works great too but for sure, no faders, motorized or not. And no real feedback from logic.

 

I write simple music, try to use 8 to 16 tracks (trying to avoid using track stacks) at most rarely more than three sends, in short a simple template for simple standard pop music most of the time.

 

Years ago, I was happy with a hardware solution as a Tascam 2488 but compare to a daw, the possibilities are rather limited.

 

Korg Studio Kontrol, X-Touch one, Panorama P1 and now X-Touch. The more sophisticated the more pricey!

 

I'm probably happy with what I have ! One thing I realise thoug: The faders on the nanokontrol 2 are short and cheap and they are probably of the same quality on the Studio Kontrol. Not very pleasant mixing experience. So,Yep, you make me realize that I miss is the feel of a normal fader, motorized. Maybe I'll try an X-Touch one before you do!

 

To be followed!

[stratquebec]

About the X-Touch One, I just remembered that it can't control the sends, so that's a kind of deal breaker to me.

[robinloops]

Waves Icon have some very interesting controllers with very quiet faders.

[stratquebec]

Platform nano is sexy! It's a new product and it's not available yet in Canada though. Not yet Mojave compatible according to the specs.

[skijumptoes]

The nano would be brilliant, but it doesn’t display parameters for the rotaries, which is the whole advantage to MCU, it’s a single LED display - crazy, or I would jump onto something like this.

[splunk]

I own the P6 and it’s brilliant. However, the controls have become sticky (to the touch) over time, and the screen can be a little slow/clumsy to respond when you want to bank through parameter pages.

 

This is a known issue. Mine were doing the same thing and I mentioned it to support at Nectar when I was having an issue with my display on my P6. They not only sent me a new display that took care of the problem I was having, they also sent me an entire set of rubber knobs and slider tops that don't have the same issue with getting sticky that the old ones had. You might want to contact them and see about getting some replacements.

 

I'm not a huge fan of the keyboard itself. The velocity sensitivity is hard to control compared to my nice controllers, it's loud and it can suffer from the "black notes are louder than the white notes" syndrome a little bit. Don't get me wrong - it gets the job done and can be fun for really making big dynamic changes without much effort, but it's difficult to control if you need some finesse. The support guy mentioned that the keyboards they're using on their new products are better and that there might be a way to retro fit those into the P6. I have no idea if that ever got implemented or if the new P6's have the newer keyboard already, but that also might be worth checking out. Overall, it's a great product. I use mine pretty much every day and love it.

[enossified]

Just a quick input here. I quote you :"There are things that cannot be controlled because Logic doesn't allow it...changing the tempo, for example." Well in Logic You can via the environment assign a special fader to a control to set the tempo from 50 to 177 from any CC.

 

That's my point. There is no native support for tempo control in the Logic API, so the Panorama has no control mapped to tempo. With some other DAWs...Reason, for example...Panorama can control the tempo from the Transport mode screen.

 

Your environment workaround can be done by switching the Panorama into the Internal (generic MIDI) mode, just like any generic controller that supports manual CC mapping.

 

The support guy mentioned that the keyboards they're using on their new products are better and that there might be a way to retro fit those into the P6. I have no idea if that ever got implemented or if the new P6's have the newer keyboard already, but that also might be worth checking out.

 

The P6 still uses the same keybed. The newer T series keybed may have a better feel (as claimed) so choosing between T and P series today is a tradeoff:

 

Need the motorized fader? Buy a P

Need the hi-res color screen? Buy a P

Need 16 knobs? Buy a P

Need 12 pads? Buy a P

 

Need the new keybed? Buy a T

Need Nektarine working in Logic? Buy a T

Need limited Mackie Control support for currently unsupported DAWs (i.e. Ableton Live)? Buy a T

Need to save money? Buy a T

 

Perhaps there will be a P mkII series sometime in the future that gains all the new stuff in the T series.

[skijumptoes]

Splunk - Thanks for info on the knobs, i may have to get in contact with them. What was the screen issue you had?

 

Also, i tried the Nektarine software, and i didn't like it much to be honest - however, after playing with it i noticed that it spits out files based on your mappings when you save, and i had a little success with copying these into the (non-wrapper) P6 integration folders.

 

So if there's a way of using that app to create 'paged' plugin presets it would be such a great feature that Nektar could add as part of the Nektarine software as a standalone app to write new mapping files for the P Series controllers. I ran out of time playing with it to see what was possible though.

[splunk]

Splunk - Thanks for info on the knobs, i may have to get in contact with them. What was the screen issue you had?

 

Basically, it failed. Fortunately, it gave me warnings in the form of distorted spots at startup and generally more and more of that over time. Since it was failing slowly, I was able to contact support and show them pictures of the problem. They were great. They gave me the option of sending them the unit to be fixed or fixing it myself. I was in the middle of a project and didn't want to be without the keyboard, so I had them send the parts. They sent along detailed instructions and the whole job was pretty painless. I was really impressed with their support.

[ulit]

... However, the controls have become sticky (to the touch) over time, ...

Mine too (on a P6 from spring 2017) I’ve asked Nektat For replacement knobs which were delivered very fast and are easy to install. The new ones seem to be made from a different material and don’t show stickyness anymore.

I’m very happy about their customer service!

Uli