Nektar Panorama CS12 - customised control of Logic Pro X

[oscwilde]

6 hours ago, velanche said:

did not see anything like a system utility to brighten the screen

Yep...good observation V.
Nothing in the doc.
I'd imagine - like the other Panoramas - there is a "global" menu somewhere...either accessible directly on the device or thru Nektarine (or another utility) where stuff like brightness/contrast/colour/calibration/MIDI, etc. can be accessed.
I'm sure Tim will chime in.

[velanche]

Thanks@oscwildefor chiming in. My guess is that something akin to with you've described is there. I have not used Nektarine,  as yet. I poured through the owner's manual, without any luck.

The device, however, does look pretty sweet on my studio desk. If I can get the screen issue sorted, then I can better follow the next steps in the manual. And yeah, those video tutorials that Nektar has promised will be good too. 

[oscwilde]

29 minutes ago, velanche said:

The device, however, does look pretty sweet on my studio desk.

Looking forward to getting a unit (a few weeks away in Oz, apparently)...still love my Panorama P4, and can see the CS12 slotting in nicely.

Nektarine is a bit of a headspin when you first use it as it does a LOT of stuff.
Once you get your head around it and customize it, it adds a lot to the Panorama.
I think the CS12/ControlCore steps this up a fair bit for plug-in control, so will have fun nerding out/tweaking things to taste.

[velanche]

I've owned a P4, when it first came out. Loved the idea of no wrappers and mapping to Logic stock plugins. It's been about over five years since I used it; I passed the keyboard on to a friend when I became a beta tester and got replacement hardware.

But I have a soft spot for Nektar. Been interacting with @TChandlerand others via support email and here. I've not met any of them in person, but hopefully will if I remember to do my first NAMM next year. The company seems to be not only passionate, but also goes above and beyond and does its best to listen to and help customers. 

 

I'm sure once you get your CS12 @oscwildemaybe that step up coudl suit ya; it's my hope here, as well!

[enossified]

12 hours ago, velanche said:

I found I had to move from a USB-B to a Thunderbolt dock for the CS12 to have sufficient power.

The motorized fader requires a fair amount of power. On Nektar’s P-series keyboards (designed in the USB 2 era) they are two USB-B ports, one is there just to power the fader.

In the manual it states:

"If the thunderbolt power icon is gray, it means Panorama CS12 is received USB low power rather than high power. To resolve, try connecting to a USB hub or USB C port. Panorama CS12 is receiving USB high power when the icon is green."

If you open up About This Mac you can see exactly how much power is available on each port and how much each connected device requires. 

[velanche]

Thanks, @enossified. Yes, I've read that part of the manual. I had it attached to a powered USB hub, but it has about 10 active connections on it, and I did see that the icon was gray. Once moved to the Thunderbolt dock, with significantly more power, that sorted out the problem.

 

The "About" info is good to know, for the future. Will look out for that. 

[enossified]

5 minutes ago, velanche said:

 I had it attached to a powered USB hub, but it has about 10 active connections on it, and I did see that the icon was gray

Not all powered hubs can maintain maximum wattage (4.5W for USB3, 2.5W for USB2) on all ports. It depends on the particular hub and it’s power supply. 

[somelpuser]

Does anyone have the dimensions of this?

[oscwilde]

 

DIMENSIONS & WEIGHT 

39 cm (L) x 11,5 cm (D) x 3,2 cm (H), 0,49 kgs

 

[TChandler]

On 2/28/2024 at 12:27 AM, velanche said:

But one thing that I'm concerned about, and maybe I am missing this, is that for my low vision, the screen needs to be brighter. I have skimmed the manual, and did not see anything like a system utility to brighten the screen.

The screen is as bright as it can be, but there is scope to make adjustments to contrast and in particular the contrast between background and text.  

 

There is nothing in the firmware currently but if you can set up a support case, we can better understand what can be done to address your concern.

[velanche]

Thanks much, @TChandler; already working with Nektar tech support and a possible solution may be at hand. I’ll follow up, there. Thank you! 

[velanche]

I'm curious to know how you CS12 users are doing with your units? 

I am slowly starting to work my way through the product, during spots of spare time. It's very early days, and I have it positioned next to my Launchpad Pro on my studio desk. I've dabbled a little with a few stock plugins and they respond nicely. While I'm continuing to adjust to the readability (it's due to my eyesight, noting to do with the product), I am making adjustments accordingly.

I look forward to testing out the pre-mapping of third-party plugins, automation, and Smart Controls. 

And if anyone has suggestions of a good stand for the CS12 that can adjust on a desktop at a 30-degree angle, I'd welcome that.

 

[oscwilde]

3 hours ago, velanche said:

And if anyone has suggestions of a good stand for the CS12 that can adjust on a desktop at a 30-degree angle, I'd welcome that.

There are loads of laptop stands that would do the job.
If you want something industrial-strength and the ability to set it to any angle - I use one of these for my Iridium (which weighs 5kg more than the CS12):
https://www.herculesstands.com/products/dj-pro-audio/laptop-stands/dg400bb

[rcandy]

3 hours ago, velanche said:

I'm curious to know how you CS12 users are doing with your units? 

I'm really enjoying it. Plug in control is certainly better than any other device I've owned. I've started mapping a few of my frequently used plug-ins that aren't mapped and it's pretty easy to setup.

I'm using it in conjunction with a Streamdeck, Keyboard Meastro and Plug Search. That combination is allowing me to get quite a bit done without using a trackpad or keyboard. I don't think I will try to map every plug in I have though - some are just a little too complex to envisage using them without a mouse so I may just map the top 12 used parameters and leave it at that.

The screen brightness and angle is fine for my needs. I really like that the device is pretty compact.

I would have preferred a dedicated jog wheel which doesn't require you to hold down a key at the same time but what's there is perfectly useable.

I'm also not keen on that when you want to disable the fader you end up with automation lanes open on screen - I always end up pressing A to close those again. 

The tempo encoder doesn't really earn its keep as I tend to set that once in a project and leave alone thereafter - so having the ability to repurpose that to something else would be nice

As you can see very minor gripes. I think what it does it does very well.

My Behringer X Touch is now up for sale (too much of a desk space hog) and I'm struggling to come up with reasons to keep my SSL UF1 (I'll definitely keep the UC1 though).

Finally I've contacted Nektar Support a few times with queries. Either misunderstandings about how something works or in one case a minor bug and they've been very responsive, which is great but sadly rare to see these days.

 

[Orourkekings]

9 hours ago, oscwilde said:

There are loads of laptop stands that would do the job.
If you want something industrial-strength and the ability to set it to any angle - I use one of these for my Iridium (which weighs 5kg more than the CS12):
https://www.herculesstands.com/products/dj-pro-audio/laptop-stands/dg400bb

What I don't like about laptop stands is the fact I wouldn't want my cables to hang in the air like that while being plugged to the laptop.  Seems it would put pressure on the connections inside the laptop ports and possibly cause them to snap.

[David Nahmani]

54 minutes ago, Orourkekings said:

What I don't like about laptop stands is the fact I wouldn't want my cables to hang in the air like that while being plugged to the laptop.  Seems it would put pressure on the connections inside the laptop ports and possibly cause them to snap.

I believe the idea was to use the laptop stand for the CS12, not for your laptop.

[Orourkekings]

12 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

I believe the idea was to use the laptop stand for the CS12, not for your laptop.

My bad, you are correct.  There still will be a usb cable dangling from the rear of the CS12 unless its propped up somehow. It most likely isn't a big deal from looking at the rear of the CS12.  I've explored desktop stands for my drumbrute impact and laptop but was particularly concerned about my laptop having a dongle hanging from it.  I'll figure something out because I do like the form factor when using smaller synths and laptops.

[Orourkekings]

10 hours ago, rcandy said:

I'm really enjoying it. Plug in control is certainly better than any other device I've owned. I've started mapping a few of my frequently used plug-ins that aren't mapped and it's pretty easy to setup.

I'm using it in conjunction with a Streamdeck, Keyboard Meastro and Plug Search. That combination is allowing me to get quite a bit done without using a trackpad or keyboard. I don't think I will try to map every plug in I have though - some are just a little too complex to envisage using them without a mouse so I may just map the top 12 used parameters and leave it at that.

The screen brightness and angle is fine for my needs. I really like that the device is pretty compact.

I would have preferred a dedicated jog wheel which doesn't require you to hold down a key at the same time but what's there is perfectly useable.

I'm also not keen on that when you want to disable the fader you end up with automation lanes open on screen - I always end up pressing A to close those again. 

The tempo encoder doesn't really earn its keep as I tend to set that once in a project and leave alone thereafter - so having the ability to repurpose that to something else would be nice

As you can see very minor gripes. I think what it does it does very well.

My Behringer X Touch is now up for sale (too much of a desk space hog) and I'm struggling to come up with reasons to keep my SSL UF1 (I'll definitely keep the UC1 though).

Finally I've contacted Nektar Support a few times with queries. Either misunderstandings about how something works or in one case a minor bug and they've been very responsive, which is great but sadly rare to see these days.

I'm highly interested in this control surface.  I really like using my keyboard and mouse but I would like higher resolution when automating and better control while doing so.  Mapping to 3rd party plugins in Logic would be a bonus also.

[David Nahmani]

1 hour ago, Orourkekings said:

There still will be a usb cable dangling from the rear of the CS12 unless its propped up somehow. It most likely isn't a big deal from looking at the rear of the CS12.

It really shouldn't be a problem. The cabling in the back of my CS12 isn't dangling, it's light enough that it doesn't pull the connector toward the bottom at all. 

[oscwilde]

4 hours ago, Orourkekings said:

Seems it would put pressure on the connections inside the laptop ports and possibly cause them to snap.

Mankinds greatest invention after the flushing toilet - duct/gaffa tape - solves all cabling problems. 😉

[velanche]

Hey thanks to those of you sharing your insights on your CS12 units; insightful and appreciated.

I'm sure it's in the manual; I have not gotten far yet, and I might ask Nektar for a copy of its quick start guide in PDF form for my vision, but I do note that while the TFT scree shows the plug-in inserts straight away, I'm not sure if there's a one-button shortcut to get to the software instrument itself. I would see the track name, insert numbers, and any used inserts. But I think I had to press the Channel button to get to the parameter screen of the main plugin (for instance, Arturia Piano V), but I am not yet sure if it's the only way.

A related query would be this: underneath, I'd see Smart (for Smart Controls, I know...have not tried yet), User 1 and User 2. I am assuming that I can take existing displayed parameters and then pick the ones that are most useful and have them saved into User 1 or 2? If so, will already be great for narrowing down the ones that would be quickly (or commonly) usable. 

My read of the manual is slow, but the manual itself is short enough that I'm trying to get through a section and go hands-on before advancing to the next section. Some things I get straight away, and other things are gonna take time, and still some others....make me wonder if I can do it faster with keyboard and mouse. 

 

 

[rcandy]

4 hours ago, velanche said:

But I think I had to press the Channel button to get to the parameter screen of the main plugin (for instance, Arturia Piano V), but I am not yet sure if it's the only way.

Yes you have to press the Channel button to get to Smart Controls and the main plug-in. I don't believe there is another way to get to the channel's instrument plug in

 

4 hours ago, velanche said:

User 1 and User 2. I am assuming that I can take existing displayed parameters and then pick the ones that are most useful and have them saved into User 1 or 2

Yes. User 1 & 2 are for controlling the plug-in instrument so use the learn to map what you want. 

[TChandler]

6 hours ago, velanche said:

I'm not sure if there's a one-button shortcut to get to the software instrument itself.

When the channel button is active, pressing the plugin button presents the Instrument GUI.  

 

6 hours ago, velanche said:

I am assuming that I can take existing displayed parameters and then pick the ones that are most useful and have them saved into User 1 or 2?

Not exactly, but the user pages are designed for picking the most useful instrument parameters directly from the plugin GUI in Logic as follows.  This is using Logic's learn which can add some quirkiness due to the controller assignments window...  

So I suggest if you are to start learning instrument params first use SHIFT+OPTION+K to open the controller assignments dialog and tuck it away in the bottom corner of the display, such that it doesn't interfere with the streamlined parameter learn process CS12 offers.  

 

Wit the controller assignments dialog already open:

Ensure User 1 page is active, and press the PLUGIN button on CS12 to toggle the instrument GUI into view.

 

The basic assignment process is:

- Hold SHIFT on CS12

- Use the mouse to select a parameter on the instrument plugin

- Turn the desired control on CS12 until you see the parameter under control correctly, and the display showing the param name and value updates.

-  repeat as required

- Release SHIFT when done.

 

Note:  Even though these user assignments are using Logic's internal learn mode the controls are still high resolution, and will respond to the setting of the MAGNIFIER button.

 

[velanche]

@rcandyGood stuff; thank you for confirming and clarifying.

@TChandler I really appreciate the explanation very helpful and good to know of potential quirks and how to approach things. 

[TChandler]

Hello all,

 

In response to customer feedback we decide to write an update patch for CS12 that allows the Tempo dial to be assigned to other functions.  Makes sense right!  

This setting is done internally in Logic via modes (see below) so it will be remembered once set.  On the CS12 the mode is selected using SHIFT+Tempo and a menu in the display. 

This feature will be in the next update.

[fstrat76]

On 2/26/2024 at 3:26 PM, rcandy said:

The only oddity I've noticed is that moving from channel to channel and setting the track volume with the fade doesn't always work. I can move to a channel that is set at unity drag the fade down and this is shown correctly in logic. The let go of the fader and move it up and logic doesn't follow suit (this is v10.8.1). Sometimes moving the fader down doesn't illicit a response either.

@TChandler I am also encountering the fader issue.  I installed the latest .04 firmware and all status lights green.  Everything seems to be working fine except intermittent fader issues. Moving the logic mixer moves the cs12 fader fine, but most of the time, the fader will not move the logic fader.  When its not working, sometimes you can press another button and it will eventually work until you let go for more than a second. 

I submitted a support ticket as this is pretty much unusable without fader control right now.

[rcandy]

6 hours ago, fstrat76 said:

I submitted a support ticket as this is pretty much unusable without fader control right now.

I had a detailed response from support in terms of how the fader works. In short I now operate it with the pad of my finger gently pressing down on it and I'm not getting any issues. I've got a medical condition which tends to make my hands cold and perhaps a little less conductive. Hopefully they can increase the sensitivity in a future update but I found that a slight modification to how I touch it made a big difference for me

[TChandler]

7 hours ago, fstrat76 said:

@TChandler I am also encountering the fader issue.

I'm pleased you logged a support case as it gives us more examples of where there is a problem so we can look to make the device more resilient against grounding issues.  

 

The first thing to try in all cases is connect to a different port. Even connecting the computer to a different power source - a different plug socket can make a difference.

[fstrat76]

9 hours ago, TChandler said:

I'm pleased you logged a support case as it gives us more examples of where there is a problem so we can look to make the device more resilient against grounding issues.  

The first thing to try in all cases is connect to a different port. Even connecting the computer to a different power source - a different plug socket can make a difference.

Update: 

1-I figured out that I have to tap the fader to get the fader to "activate", then press a little harder while using it without letting off any pressure.  Still an odd fader "workflow".  A sensitivity setting would be very helpful here.

2-Support did get back to me with suggestions and I let them know what I discovered.  Glad to see timely support for this.

[oscwilde]

@TChandler 
There's obviously the Shift button and (I'm assuming) Fine button which are hard assigned to modifier keys - along with Cycle, Rec, Marker, etc., etc. buttons being assigned to QWERTY keys (presumably?).

Can you press multiple modifiers to access / leverage further key commands?
Can the other buttons (under the screen/encoders) be re-purposed as modifiers / be used "zonelessly"?
Can the buttons have different behaviours, including timed? 
i.e. latching, momentary, double-tap (hence the timed) - or simply on/off?

Can see the device functionality being extended a fair bit if some/any of the above applies.