Map shortcuts to Icon Platform B+ with Platform M+ and CS12

[DamonNnn]

(please don't judge how messy my setup is, I plan on organizing more efficiently very soon)

 I got the CS12 and the Icon Platform M+ which work perfect with one another, both glide like butter and help me recreate the feeling of working with a board since I learned on one.

 

I saw the B+ and saw it as a perfect opportunity to map shortcuts to it the same way I did my AKAI MPK Mini a while back. I just got the Buttons and I'm running into an issue. I cannot simply use Command+L to map what I want, I believe that the B+ keeps overwriting what I'm telling Logic to do with it.

 

Everytime I use the "learn" mode in Logic it completely forgets what I've mapped. It ends up making my M+ unusable until I reinstall the controller into Logic Pro.

 

I even have tried plugging the B+ in its own USB slot which is most likely the set up I will stick with.

 

Which means I have to go on iMap, load up Snoize, and look up every value for the parameter I want to map.

 

I also have to buy a Midi to type C cable because I have a MacBook Pro. And the manual says you shouldn't be using iMap unless the units are plugged directly in the computer. It's also advised to not update firmware for M+ or B+ without doing that.

 

So this is a journey I'm gonna embark on I don't care how long it takes or how tedious it is I'll do it. But if there are any resources I can get to help me better understand this I'll greatly appreciate it. 

 

My goal is to customize the B+ and leave the M+ untouched. That is it.

If anyone here who has used iMap or Snoize with Logic help me please, once I get this figured out it will quickly become the beast I need it to be.

Thank you 🙏🤘

[oscwilde]

The B+ can operate in three modes:
- MCU
- HUI
- MIDI controller

If in either of the first two modes, it is seen as a supported Logic control device (i.e. it shows up in the Control Surfaces setup window).
In supported Logic control device mode, button assignments are automatically set and can't be overwritten/learned.

In MIDI mode, however, you can go to town with your own assignments.

[DamonNnn]

6 minutes ago, oscwilde said:

The B+ can operate in three modes:
- MCU
- HUI
- MIDI controller

If in either of the first two modes, it is seen as a supported Logic control device (i.e. it shows up in the Control Surfaces setup window).
In supported Logic control device mode, button assignments are automatically set and can't be overwritten/learned.

In MIDI mode, however, you can go to town with your own assignments.

It's telling me it comes in four modes, MCU , Logic Pro, HUI and User Define. 

User Define picks up on whatever you map on IMAP I believe. 

[oscwilde]

MCU/Logic modes are ostensibly the same....but yep - User define mode is the one to use if you want to learn/map each button.

In your Control Surfaces setup window does the B+ appear as a control surface device?
If yes....this means that it's in MCU/Logic (or HUI) mode.....and you don't want this.
You'll need to delete the B+ device (or disable it).

[DamonNnn]

1 minute ago, oscwilde said:

MCU/Logic modes are ostensibly the same....but yep - User define mode is the one to use if you want to learn/map each button.

In your Control Surfaces setup window does the B+ appear as a control surface device?
If yes....this means that it's in MCU/Logic (or HUI) mode.....and you don't want this.
You'll need to delete the B+ device (or disable it).

Yes I had added a Mackie Control Device on Setup and put inputs and outputs to Platform B+

 

Does that mean I make a "no zone" while in User Define mode? So I'm not supposed to add the Platform B+ to Logic in control surface set up?

[oscwilde]

13 minutes ago, DamonNnn said:

Does that mean I make a "no zone" while in User Define mode? So I'm not supposed to add the Platform B+ to Logic in control surface set up?

First things first.
Can you take a screenshot of your CSS window and attach it?
 

[DamonNnn]

5 minutes ago, oscwilde said:

First things first.
Can you take a screenshot of your CSS window and attach it?
 

I'm on my way to a gig at the moment but I'll send screenshots of everything when i get back 🤘

[DamonNnn]

23 hours ago, oscwilde said:

First things first.
Can you take a screenshot of your CSS window and attach it?
 

 

Is this what you're referring to?

[DamonNnn]

23 hours ago, oscwilde said:

MCU/Logic modes are ostensibly the same....but yep - User define mode is the one to use if you want to learn/map each button.

In your Control Surfaces setup window does the B+ appear as a control surface device?
If yes....this means that it's in MCU/Logic (or HUI) mode.....and you don't want this.
You'll need to delete the B+ device (or disable it).

I tried deleting the B+ from the Control Surface Set Up like you said. It worked okay until I turned on and off the unit, then Logic automatically added it to the list. 

It remembers the one parameter I mapped even though it's back on the list, but I think I just got lucky. Idk 

[oscwilde]

1 hour ago, DamonNnn said:

I tried deleting the B+ from the Control Surface Set Up like you said. It worked okay until I turned on and off the unit, then Logic automatically added it to the list.

This is because the B+ is still in MCU/Logic mode.
You need to put the B+ into User Defined mode.
Press the F8 (top right) button as you power on the unit.

Once in this mode, it should not be identified/detected in the Control Surfaces setup window as a Mackie Control unit.
i.e. it will essentially just be a "dumb" MIDI controller

Before we dive into what you need to do in the iMap app/Logic - changing the mode won't be enough - what key commands does the MCU mode send by default?
More to the point, how many of the default MCU mode commands do you want/need to change?
Only a few or loads of them?
 

[DamonNnn]

32 minutes ago, oscwilde said:

This is because the B+ is still in MCU/Logic mode.
You need to put the B+ into User Defined mode.
Press the F8 (top right) button as you power on the unit.

Once in this mode, it should not be identified/detected in the Control Surfaces setup window as a Mackie Control unit.
i.e. it will essentially just be a "dumb" MIDI controller

Before we dive into what you need to do in the iMap app/Logic - changing the mode won't be enough - what key commands does the MCU mode send by default?
More to the point, how many of the default MCU mode commands do you want/need to change?
Only a few or loads of them?
 

Ok I'll try this, I was pressing User Define as soon as I saw the 4 buttons line up.

 

I'll look at the Logic Pro map that the B+ comes with when I get home, but from what I remember it focuses by default on automation and plugin parameters. This lay out would be redundant considering that the C12 already does this.

 

I wanted to use these buttons to activate shortcuts like save, save as, quit, copy, paste, inspector, apple loops, library, piano roll, step sequencer, and everything from the toolbar dropdown menu.

And the map it comes with, I think there's a save button. I will check again.

 

But in short: Im trying to remap almost everything 

[oscwilde]

Just zoomed in on your pic...and saw what you have in mind.

Once it's in User Defined mode....and not being identified as a control surface, it should be relatively straightforward to assign the key commands.
By default, the User Defined mode assigns note numbers to the buttons.

In/of itself, this shouldn't be a problem as the device is addressed thru a unique (virtual) MIDI port....but it might be worthwhile going into the iMap app and switching (User defined mode) to channel 16 - then sending this config to the device.
This isn't mission-critical, but might avoid potential problems with other devices that default to MIDI channel 1.

[DamonNnn]

13 hours ago, oscwilde said:

Just zoomed in on your pic...and saw what you have in mind.

Once it's in User Defined mode....and not being identified as a control surface, it should be relatively straightforward to assign the key commands.
By default, the User Defined mode assigns note numbers to the buttons.

In/of itself, this shouldn't be a problem as the device is addressed thru a unique (virtual) MIDI port....but it might be worthwhile going into the iMap app and switching (User defined mode) to channel 16 - then sending this config to the device.
This isn't mission-critical, but might avoid potential problems with other devices that default to MIDI channel 1.

Okay, so I tried holding the User Define button while powering it on and something weird happens.

 

The Mackie MCU will pop up, saying it's the B+. But instead of it being beneath the Platform M+ it's right next to it now. 

[oscwilde]

6 hours ago, DamonNnn said:

The Mackie MCU will pop up, saying it's the B+. But instead of it being beneath the Platform M+ it's right next to it now. 

Odd....and definitely not what I expected.
When devices are on the same row, they become part of same control surface group.
When grouped, one devce handles a particular set of functions/group of channels, etc.
The devices don't need to be the same...or from the same manufacturer to be grouped.

All of this is interesting, but not relevant to the task at hand.
It seems as if the "User Defined" mode (memory location 4 in the B+) has an MCU/Logic template loaded.
I'd suggest opening the iMap app and making sure that slot 4 is set to user-defined/just has a bunch of notes visible....and then actually write this to the B+ (Connect/Send Data button).

[DamonNnn]

Thank you very much for everything I just got home, I'm gonna open up iMap and let you know what I find out!

Thank you very much for everything I just got home, I'm gonna open up iMap and let you know what I find out!

 

The M+ and B+ are both brand new btw they're not used devices 

[DamonNnn]

2 hours ago, oscwilde said:

Odd....and definitely not what I expected.
When devices are on the same row, they become part of same control surface group.
When grouped, one devce handles a particular set of functions/group of channels, etc.
The devices don't need to be the same...or from the same manufacturer to be grouped.

All of this is interesting, but not relevant to the task at hand.
It seems as if the "User Defined" mode (memory location 4 in the B+) has an MCU/Logic template loaded.
I'd suggest opening the iMap app and making sure that slot 4 is set to user-defined/just has a bunch of notes visible....and then actually write this to the B+ (Connect/Send Data button).

 

[DamonNnn]

When I connect my platform B+ and send the data, I close it and it goes back to MCU. Is this normal?

[oscwilde]

Hmmm...is it connected/you've pressed the Connect button?

Click the Control Mode menu and choose "4) User Defined (MCP)".
 

8 minutes ago, DamonNnn said:

When I connect my platform B+ and send the data, I close it and it goes back to MCU. Is this normal?

Yep, it's normal.
I'm just trying to figure out the "state" of the unit itself / how its various modes work.

Assuming you've just "reset" it to factory defaults....power it off, then turn it on while holding down the top right button....which should get us to User-Defined mode (in theory 😉).

To test...create a software instrument track - any instrument will be fine - and press some buttons.
It "should" play notes if in User Defined mode.
If it doesn't, choose Logic Pro > Control Surfaces > Bypass all Control Surfaces....and try playing some more buttons/notes on the software instrument.

[DamonNnn]

6 minutes ago, oscwilde said:

Hmmm...is it connected/you've pressed the Connect button?

Click the Control Mode menu and choose "4) User Defined (MCP)".
 

Yep, it's normal.
I'm just trying to figure out the "state" of the unit itself / how its various modes work.

Assuming you've just "reset" it to factory defaults....power it off, then turn it on while holding down the top right button....which should get us to User-Defined mode (in theory 😉).

To test...create a software instrument track - any instrument will be fine - and press some buttons.
It "should" play notes if in User Defined mode.
If it doesn't, choose Logic Pro > Control Surfaces > Bypass all Control Surfaces....and try playing some more buttons/notes on the software instrument.

Ok I got to where you want me, this is how I did it: every time I turn on the B+ it wants to be added to the CSS as Mackie Controller, so I had to delete it from the CSS then get IMAP going connect to it via User Define in iMap then I sent the data, now I have the IMAP window minimized. Now all the buttons are playing midi notes on a synth!

[oscwilde]

Great.

As a test, can you turn the unit off/on again....not holding down any buttons....and see if Logic wants to add it to the Control Surfaces window?

Hopefully it doesn't (it shouldn't), but just want to make sure the B+ is acting as a "dumb" MIDI unit.

 

[DamonNnn]

2 minutes ago, oscwilde said:

Great.

As a test, can you turn the unit off/on again....not holding down any buttons....and see if Logic wants to add it to the Control Surfaces window?

Hopefully it doesn't (it shouldn't), but just want to make sure the B+ is acting as a "dumb" MIDI unit.

 

No it still adds it to CSS window I have to delete it from Logic's CSS window and reload the settings from my iMap 😞

[oscwilde]

OK...
Can you take a screen grab of this window on your machine....Settings menu > MIDI > Inputs

Apologies for all of this...just trying to get my head around what/how the B+ does it's thing.
Once we get to the destination - mapping should be straightforward (famous last words).

[DamonNnn]

 

Heres what this looks like, I didnt have CS12 on at the time. By the way, the M+ and B+ are not connected to each other, they are both plugged in separately in my USB hub

[oscwilde]

Alright....think I have an idea.

Completely exit Logic and only have the iMap app open.
Click the Control Mode menu and choose "4) User Defined (MCP)".
Click the top left button (onscreen in the iMap app) and press CMD-S on your computer keyboard.
Does this do anything in the iMap app....i.e. does the info in the Message Type and Message etc. fields change/update?

[DamonNnn]

14 minutes ago, oscwilde said:

Alright....think I have an idea.

Completely exit Logic and only have the iMap app open.
Click the Control Mode menu and choose "4) User Defined (MCP)".
Click the top left button (onscreen in the iMap app) and press CMD-S on your computer keyboard.
Does this do anything in the iMap app....i.e. does the info in the Message Type and Message etc. fields change/update?

No, my MacBook Pro tells me "boop"

[oscwilde]

Is the device connected?
i.e. did you actively press the Connect button/choose the device before trying the steps above?

Not sure if User-Defined mode accepts key commands directly or if it only accepts MIDI messages.

The User guide suggests that a "Function" drop down menu exists/appears when various modes are chosen from the Control Mode menu...after you click on each of the onscreen buttons.
Not seeing this Function menu...and as I don't have a B+, not sure what - if anything - changes when the different modes are chosen/buttons are clicked...

[DamonNnn]

Yes I made sure my device was connected and I sent the data, I tried to look through the menu that you're talking about and at first it was working and I was trying to look at the CC options that I met was giving me and then I try to see if there was anything in the logic pro mode that had the CC options I was looking for. You have to select the note to see your options but none of the CC values were what I wanted on user define 

Edited April 15 by DamonNnn

[DamonNnn]

35 minutes ago, oscwilde said:

Is the device connected?
i.e. did you actively press the Connect button/choose the device before trying the steps above?

Not sure if User-Defined mode accepts key commands directly or if it only accepts MIDI messages.

The User guide suggests that a "Function" drop down menu exists/appears when various modes are chosen from the Control Mode menu...after you click on each of the onscreen buttons.
Not seeing this Function menu...and as I don't have a B+, not sure what - if anything - changes when the different modes are chosen/buttons are clicked...

I did try something though, I mapped on the Logic learn mode whenever the B+ hits those notes it triggers a key command. I turned on my m+ and then the B+ stopped playing midi notes. But it remembered the key command but wanted to have everything else in Logic mode even after I deleted it from CSS lol

[oscwilde]

Man this device (and app) is confusing but I think/hope I have this right...???
I'm probably overthinking it 😂

AFAI can tell, the User-Defined mode/mapping requires that the iMap app is open - along with Logic -  "while" you are creating the mappings/key command assignments in Logic.
But not 100% on this theory.

Try this with a few buttons....so choose a key command you want to assign in Logic's key commands window and click "Learn".....
then click the button in the app and/or on the device itself...try both to see if Logic learns / assigns from the app/device...or either.

Once you've assigned a few buttons....save the  config in the  iMap app...and send it to the device.
Now close the iMap app and see if Logic responds to the new commands.
I'm not sure if the iMap app must be open while Logic is running for the B+ to act as a controller?

If Logic is responding to the key commands....try mapping a few more buttons in Logic's controller assignments/key commands window and see if they "stick"?
Power the B+ on/off before testing the new assignments.

[DamonNnn]

7 minutes ago, oscwilde said:

Man this device is confusing but I think/hope I have this right...???

AFAI can tell, the User-Defined mode/mapping requires that the iMap app is open - along with Logic -  "while" you are creating the mappings/key command assignments in Logic.

Try this with a few buttons....so choose a key command you want to assign in Logic's key commands window and click "Learn".....
then click the button in the app and/or on the device itself...try both to see if Logic learns / assigns from the app/device...or either.

Once you've assigned a few buttons....save the  config in the  iMap app...and send it to the device.
Now close the iMap app and see if Logic responds to the new commands.
I'm not sure if the iMap app must be open while Logic is running for the B+ to act as a controller?

Okay I will do this, before I do however should I be doing this with only the B+ plugged in and turned on?

Also should I still be deleting the B+ from the CSS before doing this?

 

By the way, thank you very much for all the help. Im very grateful for all this you have no idea