Panorama CS12 - Single Point Automation

[velanche]

Hey CS12 Owners:

I've found some time to get to know the CS12 better. I'm learning more and more about using it.

But I'm a bit stymied on using the Single Point Automation. To test, I am using a Sampler instrument with Smart Controls, with a parameter that I know works with ordinary automation when I tried it with the CS12. 

With Single Point Automation, I was of the thinking that I touch the fader, and a point is added, which was done. As I moved the fader during playback (with automation enabled), the automation did not move in Logic. At the end, I was able to tap the fader again, and a fader point was added. 

I"m not sure if I'm doing it right, whether the points are supposed to be added during playback, or another way. CS owners, what say you?

Thanks. 

[rcandy]

15 hours ago, velanche said:

With Single Point Automation, I was of the thinking that I touch the fader, and a point is added, which was done. As I moved the fader during playback (with automation enabled), the automation did not move in Logic. At the end, I was able to tap the fader again, and a fader point was added

This is correct. The second point is only added when you release the fader. You move the fader between touching it and releasing it to set the value of the automation at the release point.

So if you wanted to do a volume fade you would touch the fader at the point you wanted the fade to start, move the fader to the level you want it to be at the end of the fade but only release the fader at the point that you wanted it to end. This way you get a smooth line between the two points - similar to if you created them using the mouse. This is different from the normal write mode which will create automation points as you move the fader. 

[velanche]

Still not working for me.

I did the following steps.

1. Click on my desired parameter in Smart Controls - Low Cut Frequency. 
2. Hold AUTO button and choose "Single-Point Automation" (SP). 
3. On the timeline, a previous recoded region is selected and Low Cut Frequency is chosen for automation.
4. I click on the region, an automation line with the first point appears.
5. As I attempt to move the fader up and down during playback, I see no movement on the automation line. However, something is moving the fader, but only the Low Cut Frequency automation is visible. Also, I do see additional dots on the LCF automation line, probably at points when I tried moving the fader. However, the line is still straight. 

So that's where I"m at, and I'm not lost and frustrated. 

I have faith that things will come together, but for now it's not to be. 

[rcandy]

7 minutes ago, velanche said:

I see no movement on the automation line

I’m not in front of my computer at the moment but that is correct. The line doesn’t move. When the 2nd automation point is created (at the point that you release the fader) a straight line is then drawn between the two points. 

[velanche]

Okay, I think I get it now. I was of the thought that some sort of active real-time automation is involved. So SPA is not that, but only for creating two or more points. Then it's up to me to use the pointer in between points to raise or lower the automation lines. 

On the one hand, this seems to be a tad underwhelming; I was of the thought that as I move the fader, real-time automation would be created until I lift my finger, and then an end point would be created with maybe one or more points in between with angled or straight lines in between. But it's not that. 

On the other hand, it is a quick and cleaner way to put in those points without being littered with a bunch of points. 

In my case, I was thinking of SPA as more than what I thought it would be. Still, can come in handy and I do see the benefits. 

Thanks for the help, @rcandy. 

 

[David Nahmani]

Single Point Automation is useful for example if you want to create a straight fade in or fade out automation curve in real time.

With good old Touch or Latch, when you wanted to do a real time fade out for example, you'd touch the fader where you wanted to start the fade out, and slowly drag it down, then let go when you were done. The problem was, unless you were super consistent with your dragging-down action, chances are you'd get something more or less like this: 

With Single Point Automation, if you perform the exact same irregular motion, you get this: 

So you combine the advantage of riding the fader in real time to determine your start and end point, with the advantage of having one straight automation line. 

However I've noticed this works only if there are no existing automation points anywhere on the automation curve between where you start and end your fade. 

Now you can totally use Single Point Automation to create multiple automation lines, you just have to release the fader and grab it again to start creating a new line. For example here I've touched-and-released the fader 4 times, creating 4 automation lines: 

[oscwilde]

17 minutes ago, David Nahmani said:

However I've noticed this works only if there are no existing automation points anywhere on the automation curve between where you start and end your fade. 

Does this vary when other write modes (Latch, Trim, a.s.o.) are active Dave?

[David Nahmani]

12 minutes ago, oscwilde said:

Does this vary when other write modes (Latch, Trim, a.s.o.) are active Dave?

Single Point Automation is its own automation mode, I mean you're either in Latch, OR in Trim (which on the CS12 is Trim-Touch), OR in Single Point Automation. 

[velanche]

Thanks very much for the explanation and the illustrations, David. Perhaps it’ll be more useful to me than I’m giving it credit for, but I’ll need to work with it a few times to better get the hang of it. I appreciate the help, as always. 

[David Nahmani]

Sure thing, any time. 🙂 

[velanche]

So @David Nahmani. Re-reading the last paragraph of your SPA post regarding setting points, you have illustrated new start and stop points via the same automation lane, with different volume levels. I think you mentioned that you did that in real time. After the end point at -5.7, what was it that you did to get to -19.0 for your next start and end points? I was of the thought that I needed to have all of my start and end points created on a single lane before being able to manipulate the lines with my mouse. Somehow, I think you have done it differently. Please walk me through it, if you can. Thank you!

[David Nahmani]

I held down the fader while going down from -5.7 to -19.0 then let go of the fader, touched it again to drag it up to -1.9 then let go, etc...

[velanche]

Okay, I'm kinda seeing what's happening. Even though I've chosen another parameter on the Smart Control, and it's reflected on the track's automation, though I have AUTO and SELECT engaged, Volume still appears on the upper right of the TFT display. I was under the impression that if I use my mouse to choose a parameter, then that should be the active automation that I can move with my fader, but it's not. There's a disparity that isn't apparently to me. 

[David Nahmani]

There's a known issue with SELECT mode and Smart mode, you basically should not use both together at the moment as it can lead to unexpected results. 

[velanche]

Huh! And here I was thinking I was going crazy...kinda. 

I guess Smart Controls still can get glitchy. I was able to write in automation with it via Touch the other day, then a second one. 

Still, I can get off of that ledge. Look forward to that fix.

Thanks much, David; relieved it's not me. Meanwhile, will return to single-point later and let you know.

[David Nahmani]

As far as I've experienced it, it's only the combination of SELECT and Smart modes on the CS12 that creates glitches. If you turn SELECT off you should be able to record automation for Smart Controls without glitches? 

[velanche]

I tried without SELECT, and at first I was thinking it wasn't working for me.

I then had a thought that even though the automation type I've chosen didn't seem to appear on TFT display (which would be very helpful), when I zoomed out of my Studio Display monitor, I noticed that Read was still engaged. When my finger went on the fader, I then saw Touch. So I tried Touch with the Smart Channel parameter, but I did not see it written as I moved the knob associated with it. 

At that point, I knew that I needed to pull away and leave it alone for awhile. I think I am getting closer, but wow is doing automation more of a journey than I would have liked. Still, I'm gonna nail it. I'll try again tomorrow or Wednesday. 

Thanks, David. 

[David Nahmani]

@velanche I just found out there's another way to use Single Point automation: while Logic is stopped, position the playhead, and move the fader: an automation point is created and you can adjust its value with the fader. 

[velanche]

4 hours ago, David Nahmani said:

@velanche I just found out there's another way to use Single Point automation: while Logic is stopped, position the playhead, and move the fader: an automation point is created and you can adjust its value with the fader. 

That's great to know, @David Nahmani. I will give that a try.

I wanted to try that out and then use the jog wheel on my S88 to move to a desired spot and then add another point. Unfortunately, the knob currently is not working and my understanding is that NI is addressing it. But I also submitted to Nektar Support moments ago that the tempo knob that it intends to free up would make a decent joh wheel substitute to move Logic's playhead. We'll see if it bites.

Appreciate the info, sir; will try it out later on. 

[David Nahmani]

You can press rewind or forward and turn the Data/Menu knob to use it as a jog wheel.