LPX 10.3.2 is out

[Ben E]

The 10.3.1 bug (that has been reported several times in this forum) of the playhead jumping randomly in the piano roll when scrolling with the magic mouse seems to have gone away -- even though it wasn't mentioned in the release notes. This is great news for me.

 

But something new; on many occasions (but not all) after making an edit in the piano roll (any edit) and then placing the playhead where I need it to play from I have to hit the spacebar twice to make it play.

[anp27]

Also still no shortcut for empty midi region

Do you use a Trackpad or mouse?

[akozak]

Noticing a bug in the 10.3.2 update - When Editing comp folders, dragging the beginning of regions within a comp folder moves the ENTIRE region making it fall out of time off the grid. It also cause other tracks to move and behave erratically. Anyone else seeing this?

[fisherking]

i've having some issues option-dragging regions; doing this the same way i've always done it, but, often, the region won't drag, it will timestretch... i know how to do those things separately, of course. just seems more... finicky than it's been. 

[CoinOp1]

Also still no shortcut for empty midi region

Do you use a Trackpad or mouse?

Hi, I use a trackball(Kensington)....

[fisherking]

just a thought (i've been thinking of this for a long time); seems it would be logical to name a track stack as you create it, instead of it defaulting to sum1, sum2... then having to select it, then name it....

[rzzzy1]

just a thought (i've been thinking of this for a long time); seems it would be logical to name a track stack as you create it, instead of it defaulting to sum1, sum2... then having to select it, then name it....

This would be a useful addition - it might still be a 'Summing Stack' but calling it 'Base Mix' or "Clean Gits' etc is how it ends up being named by me, to be easily identifiable amongst all the other tracks.

 

rz

[fisherking]

mine are pretty simple: VOC, TRK, BSS, DRM. almost always, so... would be great to name them when i make them. summing stacks are great!

[Atlas007]

For those noting a sonic difference, is it possible that you didn't have the 64-bit summing engine enabled previously?

Thanx for chiming in!

However, my summing pref was already at 64bit...

[anp27]

Do you use a Trackpad or mouse?

Hi, I use a trackball(Kensington)....

Oh. Because if you use a Trackpad and you have 'Look up Detectors' checked in the System Preferences, you can just do a 3 finger tap and you can draw in an empty MIDI region in the Main Window, no shortcuts or anything required...

[Atlas007]

There are still some "hiccups" here and there.

Sometimes the project's tempo changes (unduely by itself) when switching between the new drummers (Finn to Isabella and/or verci-versa) while the drumset and the drummer settings are locked.

Also, at times a selected software instrument will start recording in replace mode when issuing a playback command. And that despite the fact that the overlapping recording prefs are not set to replace, anywhere.

The above issues occurred only a couple of seemingly random occasions.

I could not repeat them intentionally... Definitely not related to key commands, those happenned while using the mouse.

[3ple]

I always see a loooooooong list of updates and fixes every time Logic is updated, but those simple things that most users have been asking for ages... nope, there's no need to do that. 

It's so annoying... like, Apple, what about updating ALL plugins' to the new layout? What about making Ultrabeat more user friendly with, for example, the ability to import or open a sample and then by just clicking arrow buttons left and right, it cycles through the samples in that same folder? What about the ability to rename busses and save them with the project? What about being able to move channel strips in the mixer? Soooo many things that could be improved to give the user a better experience and yet, they keep adding new things that maybe all of us could live without (like adding new formant filter to Alchemy or stuff like that). Alchemy is already super complete. Maybe add left/right arrows to the effects and other File menus to cycle through the presets...?

 

Anyway, I really wish Apple had a better way to manage their priorities. We, the users, never really have much to say when it comes to their updates. 

[nev17]

I'd like Apple to sort out very basic stuff like when I double click a region the editor opens on a completely random part of the track. Why? I want it to open on the region I selected and with the playhead in view where appropriate. The Catch play settings are an absolute joke. The monitoring settings are muddled and are unstable. Why do I have to sometimes select and deselect Input Monitoring several times to hear the input from my interface? I want the R key to drop in AND out of record and continue playback. It used to be this way so why add the Shift modifier to drop out of record? It's a take-killer. At least allow the user to choose which method is used. Whilst I'm on that subject, drop ins/outs are noisy and generate clicks and is nowhere near the standard set by 2" tape machines. Why do I have to BIP a take so that I can remove clicks/pops? I could go on. Sometimes I think Apple design things without the input of experienced recording engineers. Instead of new plugins, I would like the next update to solely address the many basic problems. Please!

[Tribalman]

I'd like Apple to sort out very basic stuff like when I double click a region the editor opens on a completely random part of the track. Why? I want it to open on the region I selected and with the playhead in view where appropriate.

Yes, painful , agree ... :/

[Tribalman]

i've having some issues option-dragging regions; doing this the same way i've always done it, but, often, the region won't drag, it will timestretch... i know how to do those things separately, of course. just seems more... finicky than it's been. 

I had noticed that since 10.3 option-drag have a different behavior.

I use very often shift-option-dragging to make alias and I did not why the gesture was wrong. Have to focus and doing it again.

Most of the time it was a simple move of the region.

Since, I appreciably changed the gesture ... Not easy with the habit .

[oscwilde]

I always see a loooooooong list of updates and fixes every time Logic is updated, but those simple things that most users have been asking for ages... nope, there's no need to do that. 

It's so annoying... like, Apple, what about updating ALL plugins' to the new layout? What about making Ultrabeat more user friendly with, for example, the ability to import or open a sample and then by just clicking arrow buttons left and right, it cycles through the samples in that same folder? What about the ability to rename busses and save them with the project? What about being able to move channel strips in the mixer? Soooo many things that could be improved to give the user a better experience and yet, they keep adding new things that maybe all of us could live without (like adding new formant filter to Alchemy or stuff like that). Alchemy is already super complete. Maybe add left/right arrows to the effects and other File menus to cycle through the presets...?

 

Anyway, I really wish Apple had a better way to manage their priorities. We, the users, never really have much to say when it comes to their updates. 

It's always interesting to see the reactions to an update - with heaps of "hallelujahs" from a number of people who had a particular bugfix or workflow enhancement made that was their "White Whale". On the flipside, there are the posts where someone who didn't have their wish granted makes their feelings known.

For both sides, there is the misconception that Apple isn't "listening", doesn't interact with real-world audio engineers, musicians, etc. etc. This isn't true. These, and other, forums are scanned and direct feedback is also acted on - when that info is clearly stated and can be verified in testing/is a good idea/warrants a fix.

A further misconception is that Apple has unlimited resources in a massive pool of developers - all sitting in a vast warehouse full of desks as far as the eye can see. DSP engineers are VERY thin on the ground...and I'm talking top-level developers here, not some bloke knocking out VST plugs in his bedroom. Highly skilled DSP devs are not cheap to hire. As such, the Logic, MS, GB team is nowhere near the size that most imagine it is. The dev team are not generalised, with some teams specialising in certain aspects of the application, such as Alchemy, FX plug-ins, UI design, hardware integration, and so on.

As far as seemingly "insignificant" (to an end user) changes such as a re-skin of the plug-in UIs goes....there's far more going on under the hood than is apparent. For a start, all of the original plug-in (and core application) code was Carbon...and is now Cocoa. While a simple conversion could have been done, Apple's audio engineering team put in the extra effort to optimise and enhance the Cocoa code. This results in plugs (and apps) that use less resources and/or sound "better" than their precursors. Beyond the code, multiple image resources needed to be designed, built, tested, rebuilt etc. etc. Given the 100+ plug-ins (and core app UI changes), this is no small task...and as mentioned, there aren't unlimited resources. It is a foregone conclusion that all plug-ins will receive a re-skin and/or updated functionality (not only FX, but also EXS, Ultrabeat, other synths), but it will take a while.

As far as prioritising things go - Apple, like any other company working in the DAW field - need to attract new users to make more sales. As with Ableton, Steinberg, Cakewalk, PreSonus etc. they do this by adding new features. Without adding new stuff, they become less attractive to newbies and/or lose existing users who want to try the latest cool toy. In other words, they have to keep up with/leapfrog the competition to stay relevant. As above, R&D takes time, effort, and money - which means less time/resources available to address longer-term "issues"...be they bugs or workflow probs.

So...it's not an ideal world where Apple have a bunch of code monkeys going through everyone's personal wishlist and fixing every little thing. They do, however, fix those things that affect multiple users - as evidenced by the changelogs of the point releases....just maybe not some folk's personal "whale".

If there is something that genuinely affects your ability to use Logic/MS/GB as a musical tool (i.e. a showstopper bug), communicate this clearly and directly to Apple.

If it's something that annoys you. you should also let Apple know directly.

You can, of course, also vent your spleen in forums...but this won't get it fixed/changed.

[rikki rivett]

Hmm, wonder if the assest saving bug is gone? Will wait a couple of days to update myself, as deadlines are looming

[des99]

Good, seems like this covers a lot of what I was going to say...

 

For both sides, there is the misconception that Apple isn't "listening", doesn't interact with real-world audio engineers, musicians, etc. etc. This isn't true. These, and other, forums are scanned and direct feedback is also acted on - when that info is clearly stated and can be verified in testing/is a good idea/warrants a fix.

 

Yep.

 

A further misconception is that Apple has unlimited resources in a massive pool of developers - all sitting in a vast warehouse full of desks as far as the eye can see. DSP engineers are VERY thin on the ground...and I'm talking top-level developers here, not some bloke knocking out VST plugs in his bedroom. Highly skilled DSP devs are not cheap to hire. As such, the Logic, MS, GB team is nowhere near the size that most imagine it is. The dev team are not generalised, with some teams specialising in certain aspects of the application, such as Alchemy, FX plug-ins, UI design, hardware integration, and so on.

 

Indeed. This is partly why they buy up companies like Redmatica and Camel Audio - partly for the IP, but also for the developers.

 

As far as seemingly "insignificant" (to an end user) changes such as a re-skin of the plug-in UIs goes....

It is a foregone conclusion that all plug-ins will receive a re-skin and/or updated functionality (not only FX, but also EXS, Ultrabeat, other synths), but it will take a while.

 

Yes. The "old" emagic interfaces are being phased out, and this has been done for the simpler plugins, but things the EXS24, Ultrabat, Sculpture, the ES2 - all the things with the small, complicated and fiddly interfaces are complex and overhauling these is not just a GUI change, the interfaces must be redesigned (as was done for the B3 etc already). That's no small task, and is the reason they have been left as they are for now.

 

I fully expect those plugins to be replaced by compatible, more modern GUI compatible replacements when they are ready. At least the EXS format is a core supported format for Apple, so while the EXS will eventually go away, the EXS format will continue on in whatever Apple eventually give us as the new sampler.

 

You can, of course, also vent your spleen in forums...but this won't get it fixed/changed.

 

Venting is pointless, wasteful and doesn't make anybody feel any better.

 

If you want something fixed, investigate and document it *properly*. If you feel this is too much effort for one thing that annoys you - you can begin to see the task when thousands of people are reporting poorly documented bugs and then moaning when it's not magically fixed within the next update.

[3ple]

I always see a loooooooong list of updates and fixes every time Logic is updated, but those simple things that most users have been asking for ages... nope, there's no need to do that. 

It's so annoying... like, Apple, what about updating ALL plugins' to the new layout? What about making Ultrabeat more user friendly with, for example, the ability to import or open a sample and then by just clicking arrow buttons left and right, it cycles through the samples in that same folder? What about the ability to rename busses and save them with the project? What about being able to move channel strips in the mixer? Soooo many things that could be improved to give the user a better experience and yet, they keep adding new things that maybe all of us could live without (like adding new formant filter to Alchemy or stuff like that). Alchemy is already super complete. Maybe add left/right arrows to the effects and other File menus to cycle through the presets...?

 

Anyway, I really wish Apple had a better way to manage their priorities. We, the users, never really have much to say when it comes to their updates. 

It's always interesting to see the reactions to an update - with heaps of "hallelujahs" from a number of people who had a particular bugfix or workflow enhancement made that was their "White Whale". On the flipside, there are the posts where someone who didn't have their wish granted makes their feelings known.

For both sides, there is the misconception that Apple isn't "listening", doesn't interact with real-world audio engineers, musicians, etc. etc. This isn't true. These, and other, forums are scanned and direct feedback is also acted on - when that info is clearly stated and can be verified in testing/is a good idea/warrants a fix.

A further misconception is that Apple has unlimited resources in a massive pool of developers - all sitting in a vast warehouse full of desks as far as the eye can see. DSP engineers are VERY thin on the ground...and I'm talking top-level developers here, not some bloke knocking out VST plugs in his bedroom. Highly skilled DSP devs are not cheap to hire. As such, the Logic, MS, GB team is nowhere near the size that most imagine it is. The dev team are not generalised, with some teams specialising in certain aspects of the application, such as Alchemy, FX plug-ins, UI design, hardware integration, and so on.

As far as seemingly "insignificant" (to an end user) changes such as a re-skin of the plug-in UIs goes....there's far more going on under the hood than is apparent. For a start, all of the original plug-in (and core application) code was Carbon...and is now Cocoa. While a simple conversion could have been done, Apple's audio engineering team put in the extra effort to optimise and enhance the Cocoa code. This results in plugs (and apps) that use less resources and/or sound "better" than their precursors. Beyond the code, multiple image resources needed to be designed, built, tested, rebuilt etc. etc. Given the 100+ plug-ins (and core app UI changes), this is no small task...and as mentioned, there aren't unlimited resources. It is a foregone conclusion that all plug-ins will receive a re-skin and/or updated functionality (not only FX, but also EXS, Ultrabeat, other synths), but it will take a while.

As far as prioritising things go - Apple, like any other company working in the DAW field - need to attract new users to make more sales. As with Ableton, Steinberg, Cakewalk, PreSonus etc. they do this by adding new features. Without adding new stuff, they become less attractive to newbies and/or lose existing users who want to try the latest cool toy. In other words, they have to keep up with/leapfrog the competition to stay relevant. As above, R&D takes time, effort, and money - which means less time/resources available to address longer-term "issues"...be they bugs or workflow probs.

So...it's not an ideal world where Apple have a bunch of code monkeys going through everyone's personal wishlist and fixing every little thing. They do, however, fix those things that affect multiple users - as evidenced by the changelogs of the point releases....just maybe not some folk's personal "whale".

If there is something that genuinely affects your ability to use Logic/MS/GB as a musical tool (i.e. a showstopper bug), communicate this clearly and directly to Apple.

If it's something that annoys you. you should also let Apple know directly.

You can, of course, also vent your spleen in forums...but this won't get it fixed/changed.

I think we have to understand that not all "venting" is random. Go back to old posts about people talking that they would like to rename busses, moving channel strips in the mixer and other small tweaks that would make their life easier. That goes back to Logic 9, so we are not talking about MY list of wishes. I'm talking about things that are obvious for someone who works with Logic every single day. As much as we have to think about everybody, I don't believe not nearly 50% of the people who work with Logic uses the surround option, then why fixing something related to surround, when they can fix or tweak something that will help 90% of the users (including those who use surround, for example)? Naming busses makes perfect sense: if you can see Rev, Dly, Chrs instead of Bus 1, Bus 2, Bus 3, isn't it a good feature? Also, wouldn't it be great if you could drag channel strips in the mixer? I know we can rearrange them in the main window and it will reflect on the mixer, but for the auxs, you have to create a new track and maybe I don't want to create one... I just want to drag it left and right. It's not the first time i see someone asking for that.

Also, when I'm talking about the skin, I of course understand that EXS24, ES2 and other synths, are more complex. But I don't understand that they changed the EnVerb and not the Platinum Verb. They changed some of those plugins that shared the same GUI but not all. I think it would be better to just redo them all and that's it. It's like hiring someone to paint your house inside and they only paint half of the rooms lol As much as I wish all the plugins had a new and more modern GUI, it just bothers me that some still have that ugly GUI from 20 years ago.

Also, it's not that they have monkeys working for us (which could actually do a better job than some people out there hahaha). It's about fixing things and tweaking things before adding new ones that seem more irrelevant. For example, why adding new formant filters to Alchemy, when there are other priorities? Like for example, if you add a reverb in Alchemy and then you want to try a new preset, you go to File, Preset and then click the one you want. Then what if you don't like it? Go back to File, Preset and click the new one. Wouldn't it be easier to just put two buttons next to file to load the previous and next preset on the list? It seems pretty obvious to me. Only someone who doesn't use Logic won't miss this kind of feature. They have this feature on the Convolution Reverb inside Alchemy. Why not applying it to all sections with a File button?

So, yeah, I'm not just venting for no reason or because it's MY wish list. It's all about workflow and how to make everything work better for everybody. Of course there's always someone who don't care about feature A or B, but that doesn't mean it's not useful for 90% of the people. For example, I never use the Score, but that doesn't mean I think it's useless to tweak it and fix it. That's a different section. I don't use it, but I know a lot of people do. It's ok. But when they fix a surround plugin and don't fix one that 995 of people use, then yeah, it sounds pretty obvious they don't listen to their users or they don't use Logic on a regular basis to know the basic needs of someone who does.

[gpiccolini]

Noticing a bug in the 10.3.2 update - When Editing comp folders, dragging the beginning of regions within a comp folder moves the ENTIRE region making it fall out of time off the grid. It also cause other tracks to move and behave erratically. Anyone else seeing this?

I had a severe similar problem working in a studio with 10.3.0  As my computer still has 10.2.x (I don't want to upgrade the OS) I never ran into it again. But it was severe and almost ruined hours of recording. I work professionally with Logic since V2.0 and before that with Notator, and I've never experienced that before or at least since V5. Weird and scary. Still don't understand what happened, but something similar to your description with several files that coudn´t be find by the program and had to be finded mannually (which was a problem because they were inside Take folders and something also happened with starting points and zones... a mess). Anyone?

Edited July 24, 2017 by gpiccolini

[Musician-X1]

It's always interesting to see the reactions to an update - with heaps of "hallelujahs" from a number of people who had a particular bugfix or workflow enhancement made that was their "White Whale". On the flipside, there are the posts where someone who didn't have their wish granted makes their feelings known.

For both sides, there is the misconception that Apple isn't "listening", doesn't interact with real-world audio engineers, musicians, etc. etc. This isn't true. These, and other, forums are scanned and direct feedback is also acted on - when that info is clearly stated and can be verified in testing/is a good idea/warrants a fix.

A further misconception is that Apple has unlimited resources in a massive pool of developers - all sitting in a vast warehouse full of desks as far as the eye can see. DSP engineers are VERY thin on the ground...and I'm talking top-level developers here, not some bloke knocking out VST plugs in his bedroom. Highly skilled DSP devs are not cheap to hire. As such, the Logic, MS, GB team is nowhere near the size that most imagine it is. The dev team are not generalised, with some teams specialising in certain aspects of the application, such as Alchemy, FX plug-ins, UI design, hardware integration, and so on.

As far as seemingly "insignificant" (to an end user) changes such as a re-skin of the plug-in UIs goes....there's far more going on under the hood than is apparent. For a start, all of the original plug-in (and core application) code was Carbon...and is now Cocoa. While a simple conversion could have been done, Apple's audio engineering team put in the extra effort to optimise and enhance the Cocoa code. This results in plugs (and apps) that use less resources and/or sound "better" than their precursors. Beyond the code, multiple image resources needed to be designed, built, tested, rebuilt etc. etc. Given the 100+ plug-ins (and core app UI changes), this is no small task...and as mentioned, there aren't unlimited resources. It is a foregone conclusion that all plug-ins will receive a re-skin and/or updated functionality (not only FX, but also EXS, Ultrabeat, other synths), but it will take a while.

As far as prioritising things go - Apple, like any other company working in the DAW field - need to attract new users to make more sales. As with Ableton, Steinberg, Cakewalk, PreSonus etc. they do this by adding new features. Without adding new stuff, they become less attractive to newbies and/or lose existing users who want to try the latest cool toy. In other words, they have to keep up with/leapfrog the competition to stay relevant. As above, R&D takes time, effort, and money - which means less time/resources available to address longer-term "issues"...be they bugs or workflow probs.

So...it's not an ideal world where Apple have a bunch of code monkeys going through everyone's personal wishlist and fixing every little thing. They do, however, fix those things that affect multiple users - as evidenced by the changelogs of the point releases....just maybe not some folk's personal "whale".

If there is something that genuinely affects your ability to use Logic/MS/GB as a musical tool (i.e. a showstopper bug), communicate this clearly and directly to Apple.

If it's something that annoys you. you should also let Apple know directly.

You can, of course, also vent your spleen in forums...but this won't get it fixed/changed.

I think we have to understand that not all "venting" is random. Go back to old posts about people talking that they would like to rename busses, moving channel strips in the mixer and other small tweaks that would make their life easier. That goes back to Logic 9, so we are not talking about MY list of wishes. I'm talking about things that are obvious for someone who works with Logic every single day. As much as we have to think about everybody, I don't believe not nearly 50% of the people who work with Logic uses the surround option, then why fixing something related to surround, when they can fix or tweak something that will help 90% of the users (including those who use surround, for example)? Naming busses makes perfect sense: if you can see Rev, Dly, Chrs instead of Bus 1, Bus 2, Bus 3, isn't it a good feature? Also, wouldn't it be great if you could drag channel strips in the mixer? I know we can rearrange them in the main window and it will reflect on the mixer, but for the auxs, you have to create a new track and maybe I don't want to create one... I just want to drag it left and right. It's not the first time i see someone asking for that.

Also, when I'm talking about the skin, I of course understand that EXS24, ES2 and other synths, are more complex. But I don't understand that they changed the EnVerb and not the Platinum Verb. They changed some of those plugins that shared the same GUI but not all. I think it would be better to just redo them all and that's it. It's like hiring someone to paint your house inside and they only paint half of the rooms lol As much as I wish all the plugins had a new and more modern GUI, it just bothers me that some still have that ugly GUI from 20 years ago.

Also, it's not that they have monkeys working for us (which could actually do a better job than some people out there hahaha). It's about fixing things and tweaking things before adding new ones that seem more irrelevant. For example, why adding new formant filters to Alchemy, when there are other priorities? Like for example, if you add a reverb in Alchemy and then you want to try a new preset, you go to File, Preset and then click the one you want. Then what if you don't like it? Go back to File, Preset and click the new one. Wouldn't it be easier to just put two buttons next to file to load the previous and next preset on the list? It seems pretty obvious to me. Only someone who doesn't use Logic won't miss this kind of feature. They have this feature on the Convolution Reverb inside Alchemy. Why not applying it to all sections with a File button?

So, yeah, I'm not just venting for no reason or because it's MY wish list. It's all about workflow and how to make everything work better for everybody. Of course there's always someone who don't care about feature A or B, but that doesn't mean it's not useful for 90% of the people. For example, I never use the Score, but that doesn't mean I think it's useless to tweak it and fix it. That's a different section. I don't use it, but I know a lot of people do. It's ok. But when they fix a surround plugin and don't fix one that 995 of people use, then yeah, it sounds pretty obvious they don't listen to their users or they don't use Logic on a regular basis to know the basic needs of someone who does.

After reading your last two post i don't even need to vent you've covered most of my complaints lol

[3ple]

After reading your last two post i don't even need to vent you've covered most of my complaints lol

Are you talking about what I wrote or what oscwilde wrote?

[oscwilde]

3ple:

I think we have to understand that not all "venting" is random. Go back to old posts about people talking that they would like to rename busses, moving channel strips in the mixer and other small tweaks that would make their life easier. That goes back to Logic 9, so we are not talking about MY list of wishes. I'm talking about things that are obvious for someone who works with Logic every single day. As much as we have to think about everybody, I don't believe not nearly 50% of the people who work with Logic uses the surround option, then why fixing something related to surround, when they can fix or tweak something that will help 90% of the users (including those who use surround, for example)? Naming busses makes perfect sense: if you can see Rev, Dly, Chrs instead of Bus 1, Bus 2, Bus 3, isn't it a good feature? Also, wouldn't it be great if you could drag channel strips in the mixer? I know we can rearrange them in the main window and it will reflect on the mixer, but for the auxs, you have to create a new track and maybe I don't want to create one... I just want to drag it left and right. It's not the first time i see someone asking for that.

Also, when I'm talking about the skin, I of course understand that EXS24, ES2 and other synths, are more complex. But I don't understand that they changed the EnVerb and not the Platinum Verb. They changed some of those plugins that shared the same GUI but not all. I think it would be better to just redo them all and that's it. It's like hiring someone to paint your house inside and they only paint half of the rooms lol As much as I wish all the plugins had a new and more modern GUI, it just bothers me that some still have that ugly GUI from 20 years ago.

 

 

 

I suspected I might get a reaction directly

My comments weren't specifically directed at you, but rather at any "venters"...and trying to point out that while folks in this forum can assist with many issues, some things need to be directed to Apple so they can verify and fix things.

 

With regard to "why fix a surround plug when a handful of people use it?" - in essence, if a plug-in with the same underlying ENGINE is being revamped/Cocoa-ed or whatever, then it makes sense to also modify the surround version while doing the m, m/s, stereo version. It's just an efficient use of resources.

I do understand that changing less mainstream features seems to be Apple "not caring", or "screwed up priorities"...but am pointing out why this is likely to be happening.

 

Re: "skinning some but not all reverbs"....again, it comes down to time and also the "retiring" of some plug-ins. As you/long-term users would know, many plugs have disappeared into the Legacy list (Option-click an Insert to see it) that are retained for compatibility with older projects. Same vibe with GB instruments. If a plug-in is due to be replaced with new code/algorithms, Apple would be nuts to invest time giving the old version a new coat of paint. As such, some plugs won't ever be reskinned, but they will be replaced. Others that currently remain in their old skin that aren't planned for retirement will be updated...as above, time/resources permitting.

I'm sure Apple wanted to make a huge splash by redoing them all at the same time, but simply didn't have the resources. Be patient, they'll get to them.

 

With regard to renaming in the Mixer...not sure I see where anyone is really "limited" here?

Mixer window > Options > I/O Labels (Short and Long names are available)

Mixer window - directly rename the Aux

Environment Mixer layer - directly rename the Aux (this can be overridden in the Mixer window)

Save as a template (or autoload...for you old-timers), inclusive of your default FX/routings....and all of your goodies are there.

If people are after an "automatic" function that automatically renames a bus after (presumably) the first insert in the channel....this would be a BAD thing for many users. Obviously, ultra-convenient if you inserted Space Designer in a Bus, and it auto-renamed the chan to RVB...but a total PITA if you wanted to call the bus "Violas" to control this string section. For anyone after something "automatic", like this, it could - technically - be implemented, but would need to be complex to allow the choice of insert slot, variable naming options etc. In essence, this would be an overly complex and more confusing option for end users. Software design is often a balancing act, where adding something convenient and simple involves major coding effort....and sometimes, it's just not worth doing as the end result doesn't bring enough benefit for the required workload.

 

Moving channels...I see the benefit of this for some. As a potential workaround, the Environment Mixer layer (or multiple Mixer layers) could be used...in conjunction with screensets.

 

Re: the Piano Roll "arbitrary" thing....and let me preface this with a "it's still a bit weird"...there are a few things you can do to change this to make it more consistent/more useable Of course, YMMV...but some of these suggestions might make life easier.

- disable Scroll in Play (this is the no 1 culprit)

- change your Snap settings

- experiment with the One Track and Secondary Ruler options in the menus

- if you're keen...try a different workflow that integrates the Event List and/or Event Float to do your selection/moving - in addition to the PR/in place of it.

Edited July 25, 2017 by oscwilde

[mattrixx]

Hey, who ya calling an old timer? LOL    I guess Logic 1.6 puts me in that category. Mmm  

[oscwilde]

Hey, who ya calling an old timer? LOL    I guess Logic 1.6 puts me in that category. Mmm  

I too, used to "Go to work with a smile"...back when I had teeth

[mattrixx]

Haha LOL

[JCcares]

Where can I find the latest 10.3.2 manual please ?

[oscwilde]

The Help menu...and the iBooks store if you want an ePub version.

[Musician-X1]

After reading your last two post i don't even need to vent you've covered most of my complaints lol

Are you talking about what I wrote or what oscwilde wrote?

I was talking about what you wrote. My rant was covered pretty well by you.

[nev17]

For both sides, there is the misconception that Apple isn't "listening", doesn't interact with real-world audio engineers, musicians, etc. etc. This isn't true. 

 

Hey oscwilde, thanks for giving us an insight into Apple’s thinking. Not sure if you work for Apple but you appear to be in-the-know so your take is fascinating. 

 

Apple clearly haven’t listened to, or sought the opinion of audio engineers in a number of ways. For one, I refer you back to my comment regarding drop ins/outs. No engineer worth their salt will say that the sheer number of clicks/noises it creates is acceptable. I waste an inordinate amount of time & effort cleaning up. That’s when I can get the editor to work properly after driving myself nuts using the space-bar to find that it doesn’t work in the editor but in tracks view and now I have to reset the position in the editor because it’s skipped somewhere, who knows where, and why can’t I delete the click now? Oh, I have to bounce the region and come back to the editor & hit space-bar again! Aarrgghhh! Simple, basic things should work intuitively!

 

A further misconception is that Apple has unlimited resources in a massive pool of developers

and as mentioned, there aren't unlimited resources.

 

It’s not correct to claim that one of the richest companies the world has ever known doesn’t have the resources to fix basic problems with its’ standard-bearer professional software. It’s not that they don’t have the resources, rather it’s that they haven’t allocated the resources. This should tell us Logic users all we need to know about Apple’s priorities. If Apple chooses to, it can use a tiny percentage of its’ $25 billion cash reserves to solve these problems. No?

 

Without adding new stuff, they become less attractive to newbies and/or lose existing users who want to try the latest cool toy. In other words, they have to keep up with/leapfrog the competition to stay relevant. As above, R&D takes time, effort, and money - which means less time/resources available to address longer-term "issues"...be they bugs or workflow probs.

 

By “longer-term issues” do you mean basic functions not working correctly? Basic functions should work flawlessly. All the time. No excuses. Ask a pilot.

 

If there is something that genuinely affects your ability to use Logic/MS/GB as a musical tool (i.e. a showstopper bug), communicate this clearly and directly to Apple.

If it's something that annoys you. you should also let Apple know directly.

You can, of course, also vent your spleen in forums...but this won't get it fixed/changed.

Venting is pointless, wasteful and doesn't make anybody feel any better.

 

If you want something fixed, investigate and document it *properly*. If you feel this is too much effort for one thing that annoys you - you can begin to see the task when thousands of people are reporting poorly documented bugs and then moaning when it's not magically fixed within the next update.

 

My comments weren't specifically directed at you, but rather at any "venters"...and trying to point out that while folks in this forum can assist with many issues, some things need to be directed to Apple so they can verify and fix things.

Are you both saying that we should only complain about long-standing issues in the way Apple prescribe or expect to be ignored? They read the posts in this forum, don’t they? If not, they really should. 

 

As for venting - the whole purpose of it is to jar. You’re talking about people who were sold a promise and have invested their working life & careers in a system that creates pent-up frustration and you expect them not to vent. And besides, I think people generally vent very politely on this forum. No cause for complaint there, surely.  

 

I’ll tell you why I and many others choose to vent on this forum instead of, or in addition to, directing it to Apple. It’s because we get a response. Sometimes positive, sometimes negative, but a response none-the-less. What’s the alternative? A message sent into the black hole-of-nothingness that is Apple. No feedback. No apology. Nothing. Once the money has been handed over, Apple seem to think their responsibility ends there. No, it doesn’t. Not to me and not to many others.

 

Re: the Piano Roll "arbitrary" thing....and let me preface this with a "it's still a bit weird"...there are a few things you can do to change this to make it more consistent/more useable Of course, YMMV...but some of these suggestions might make life easier.

- disable Scroll in Play (this is the no 1 culprit)

- change your Snap settings

- experiment with the One Track and Secondary Ruler options in the menus

- if you're keen...try a different workflow that integrates the Event List and/or Event Float to do your selection/moving - in addition to the PR/in place of it.

Thanks. I’ve tried all of your suggestions many times over to no avail.

 

I’ll finish by saying that I prefer the facilities that Logic offers over ProTools. It’s a system that suits me better but there’ll come a point at which I will be tipped the other way. Apple have to get it into their heads that basic operations should work intuitively & flawlessly. Considering that they also design the computer that operates it, they can have no excuses. And further, I don't have the time or inclination to provide Apple with a running commentary of all the niggles and flaws in their system. 

 

Thanks oscwilde & des99 for sticking your necks out and giving the opposite view. It was very informative and, of course, gave me an opportunity to vent