stratquebec Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I just discovered there's a new demo project. It's called Colors by Beck Hansen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Thanks for your rant.. There are many users reporting problems with High Sierra, and some audio software manufacturers are still not recommending it. A few people having success can't erase many people having problems. So for now, no...I cannot recommend and will not be trying it myself until an overwhelming number of people are running audio applications without issue. Sierra on the other hand is well established as working fine in most all audio situations cheers people have been reporting issues with mac OSes since the dawn of mac OSes. what's your source for the 'few' and 'many'? and what was your own experience on HS like? here, all my plugins work, LX is stable, and my macs are happy (as am i). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Glad to hear its working for you! I'm waiting and I don't have time to do a google search for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Glad to hear its working for you! I'm waiting and I don't have time to do a google search for you i was asking about where you got your information; making statements is easy, proving them is something else. but... whatever, let's get back to the thread at hand. if you're not running 10.4, no reason to post about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I don't know what you're ranting about fisherking, I am using Sierra and LPX 10.4 and it works great! Highly recommend. I just can't recommend High Sierra yet. Sorry if you don't approve of that last bit, but that's how I see it and i have no desire to debate with you about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skijumptoes Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 You can't 'recommend' it based on what exactly? That's the question Fisherking asked, there's no malice behind it. Suggesting that a 'few' people are happy, yet 'many' are not makes it seem overly weighted against HS, when in fact it's your own bias, and experience that's causing such distain. I think it's safe to say that reading through this thread the large majority are seemingly very happy with the latest updates, unless my eyes deceive me?! If you have a piece of hardware which a third party has failed to maintain drivers for (Of which they're provided a significant timeframe) then you can't really blame the OS for progressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 There are many threads on this subject all over the internet, I am not going to search them out for you now. Here is just one of many: http://www.motunation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=64437. Its really funny to me how the apple fan boys come running out from under their rocks and get all defensive anytime someone says to be careful about the latest OSX release..which history has shown quite often to be problematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 you still need to obtain a copy from a sierra installation (or otherwise),then you copy it over, and edit info.plist. there's a flag somewhere in the info.plist for minimum OS version. (or it used to be) then you try to run it, YMMV. I already posted that I tried this - doesn't work. I also share the opinion that I don't think HS is really ready yet - I'm sure it works fine for many people, and certainly for some simple use cases, but there are also well-documented problems with it, from many people in many areas. The people who take the attitude "The opinion not to recommend HS is wrong, based on my personal experience being fine with it" should probably (if they are interested) read around a bit and widen their evidence base. The fact that I don't recommend it doesn't mean any individual might be perfectly fine with it. It *does* mean the liklihood for issues surfacing and affecting a given user is higher than a more established and road tested older version - especially for the many known issues, and the new filesystem, and especially if you are running a lot of legacy software. Everyone's situation is a bit different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skijumptoes Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Its really funny to me how the apple fan boys come running out from under their rocks and get all defensive anytime someone says to be careful about the latest OSX release..which history has shown quite often to be problematic. It's nothing to do with fan boys, it's just basic etiquette. if you follow the etiquette of this forum, there's threads purely devoted to incompatibilities on an OS level as to where all this gets discussed and users are constantly reminded to check their hardware/driver compatibility before upgrading - that's just a given, a base level understanding of using applications such as Logic, and forums to support that. It's not an 'apple' thing, it's across all applications on any platform. To come in to a thread relating to an application update where people are sharing first hand experiences, reactions and helpful tips, then flippantly throw out a 'I don't recommend it' post that's based on no personal experience is of no help to anyone. But further than that, when someone asks what you're basing that non-recommendation on, to then say "Oh, i'm not going to tell you - google for it!" and paint people as 'fan boys' is pretty childish to be honest. If you've got something to bring to the table other than hear'say then great, but please just follow the general etiquette that makes this forum such a wonderful place to visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 you guys are funny. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Everyone's situation is a bit different. exactly; which is why people's 'absolute' statements have no merit (unless, of course, everyone shares the same experience). i've watched this pattern since my first mac OS (10.2); with each new system, people gripe about the new, swear they'll stay with the old. then time passes, and we all move ahead. so we can choose which OS/logic version, etc we want to run. just tiresome when people 'explain' things in broad strokes, as if their opinion was a fact... for everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musician-X1 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Forgive my ignorance if this is a silly question but is there any benefit to apple having everyone on the same OS version? It seems ever since OS X lion there is a new version every year. If I could have it my way I would still be on mountain lion or mavericks simply because those version were more visually appealing to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Forgive my ignorance if this is a silly question but is there any benefit to apple having everyone on the same OS version? It seems ever since OS X lion there is a new version every year. If I could have it my way I would still be on mountain lion or mavericks simply because those version were more visually appealing to me. we're not all on the same systems. but progress...is progress, and (for me at least) what happens under the hood is the most important thing. i care about how the OS looks & feels, but mostly... i want my apps to work. for me, so far, LX 10.4 on HS is great. imagine a great-looking car with bad mechanics; a (slightly) less great-looking car with stellar mechanics would certainly be preferable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skijumptoes Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Forgive my ignorance if this is a silly question but is there any benefit to apple having everyone on the same OS version? It seems ever since OS X lion there is a new version every year. If I could have it my way I would still be on mountain lion or mavericks simply because those version were more visually appealing to me. Yeah huge advantage for everyone - everyone on the same OS version, you can optimise apps to that OS build and associated frameworks, lock down security vulnerabilities easier, upgrade backend services such as iCloud with minimum disruption, and makes QA/Testing is a whole lot easier (Imagine being a web developer and only needing to check your work on Chrome fullscreen @ 1920x1080 for example). Third party manufacturers would also be fully aware that a huge percentage of their users would be on the latest OS and such can better budget/justify new driver updates, even for older products. As much as people think it's some kind of conspiracy - the progression of Logic that we see today, such as the new reverb models and visuals, is building on technology that's existed since El Capitan and is only now being utilised, it's not as though it came out of the blue with High Sierra and we're all expected to suddenly jump. It's been talked about for years now. If you watch through the eyes of a developer, Apple are actually very slow on the uptake of their own technologies on end user releases, and the yearly OS cycle actually makes it easier to prevent stagnation if you're a developer, but importantly it does help jobs in the IT domain, as it's constantly evolving and seeking out fresh minds and newer coding concepts which shape those end products. They also have a competitive business to run, and they're in the game of 'owning' each room in your house vs Google, MS, Amazon etc. So the uptake of new OS's really is a key performance indicator for that, a barometer of their success shall we say. Now that there's a race to to take every room in our houses, claiming a stake in the workspace for musicians is no longer such a large part of their brand - so we do end up getting pulled along by the tail at times for 'the greater good'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Apple has never imposed upon itself any discipline in terms of the way they engineer their software for backwards compatibility. They have repeatedly over decades deprecated and changed radically or subtly their OS, the architecture underneath, the API's, etc and blown off even slightly older hardware with little fuss. That is just the Apple Way. As I said before, the best thing to do is accept this as the way of life and roll with it. There are pros and cons to maintaining backwards compatibility. Its harder to maintain it while bringing out innovative new features. Not usually impossible, but harder. Apple has had an "out with the old, in with the new" philosophy for decades, they are not ever going to change. The other upside for this strategy is that it does force users to upgrade their hardware more often, something Apple has a vested interest in. They don't have any vested interest in making sure the old hardware they sold you 3 years ago still works other then making sure to not tick everyone off too much. In contrast to this you have MS Windows, which goes to great lengths to engineer a platform that runs on a very WIDE variety of motherboards and CPU's and peripherals, spread back in time over a long range of time. It is very highly backwards compatible. You can often run stuff that was compiled many years ago and it still runs no problem on the latest windows OS. Don't get me wrong, I'll take OSX over Windows any day for various reasons, but on this topic, MS Windows has a fundamental architecture that promotes backwards compatibility and cross compatibility on a very wide variety of hardware. Apple does exactly the opposite of that and they have financial incentive to do the opposite of that since they are fundamentally in the business of selling hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentismus Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Ok. I figured the full size of a new sound library. ~1,82 Gb of impulse responses, plus ~28,16 Gb of loops, plus ~61,49 Gb of samples in logics folder, plus ~21,21 Gb of garageband instruments, which gives in sum ~112,68 Gb. Quite an amount. Would you be so kind as to list the directories you did "get info" on to find this info? I just did a quick look and it seems some of my dirs are smaller than this, but it says I've downloaded everything. Thanks, Chris Sure. Here you are: /Library/Application Support/Logic /Library/Application Support/GarageBand /Library/Audio/Apple Loops /Library/Audio/Impulse Responses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darude Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 First of all: OMFaudioGODS! Automation edit in midi and track editor! AND last touched parameter auto select. HOW I'VE BEEN HOPING THIS WOULD BE A REALITY ONE DAY! (#sorrynotsorry for the caps there) + new effects + new key commands + mixer & plugin undo + ARA2 + whatever else there is. I'm very excited about this update! Second of all, without being civil or not, I don't know how many years of usage do you guys expect out of your computers, but as I previously posted, my studio MP is an early 2009 model and with a simple-to-use firmware tool it got an extended lease of life with Sierra last year. It's still running my Logic (10.3.3, dunno about 10.4 yet) projects just fine, so I'm at 9 years and counting, which in computer years is like FOREVER, until I can see what the possible new modular Mac Pro is about and will pull the trigger on a major studio overhaul (as with most likely no PCI bus, I'll have to get new (TB) audio interface(s) to replace my 2002 (how about that life span?) MOTUs and probably some new external drive enclosures to host what's now inside the cheese grader etc). If you ask me, Logic life's good right now. And Live 10, which I've already been beta testing, also around the corner, and Push 2 on my desk alongside the software, I'm not going to be bored or lacking for inspiration in 2018. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musician-X1 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Forgive my ignorance if this is a silly question but is there any benefit to apple having everyone on the same OS version? It seems ever since OS X lion there is a new version every year. If I could have it my way I would still be on mountain lion or mavericks simply because those version were more visually appealing to me. Yeah huge advantage for everyone - everyone on the same OS version, you can optimise apps to that OS build and associated frameworks, lock down security vulnerabilities easier, upgrade backend services such as iCloud with minimum disruption, and makes QA/Testing is a whole lot easier (Imagine being a web developer and only needing to check your work on Chrome fullscreen @ 1920x1080 for example). Third party manufacturers would also be fully aware that a huge percentage of their users would be on the latest OS and such can better budget/justify new driver updates, even for older products. As much as people think it's some kind of conspiracy - the progression of Logic that we see today, such as the new reverb models and visuals, is building on technology that's existed since El Capitan and is only now being utilised, it's not as though it came out of the blue with High Sierra and we're all expected to suddenly jump. It's been talked about for years now. If you watch through the eyes of a developer, Apple are actually very slow on the uptake of their own technologies on end user releases, and the yearly OS cycle actually makes it easier to prevent stagnation if you're a developer, but importantly it does help jobs in the IT domain, as it's constantly evolving and seeking out fresh minds and newer coding concepts which shape those end products. They also have a competitive business to run, and they're in the game of 'owning' each room in your house vs Google, MS, Amazon etc. So the uptake of new OS's really is a key performance indicator for that, a barometer of their success shall we say. Now that there's a race to to take every room in our houses, claiming a stake in the workspace for musicians is no longer such a large part of their brand - so we do end up getting pulled along by the tail at times for 'the greater good'. You make some good points. Im all for upgrading macOS if it means a better Logic Pro...still wish I could have kept the older look tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 until I can see what the possible new modular Mac Pro is about and will pull the trigger on a major studio overhaul (as with most likely no PCI bus, I'll have to get new (TB) audio interface(s) to replace my 2002 (how about that life span?) MOTUs and probably some new external drive enclosures to host what's now inside the cheese grader etc). This is what I am personally most concerned about. I have thousands of dollars worth of PCI based audio hardware that works just fine, thank you very much. If Apple forces the new next gen Mac Pro to use something else, the cost to upgrade will be very cost preventative. My 5,1 MacPro is 12 cores x 3.33ghz and is perfectly capable of doing every project I set my mind to. However if Apple deprecates the 5,1 machines, then it will only be a year or two at most before I will be unable to run the latest version of Logic without spending a large sum of money to upgrade both the computer and all the audio hardware. For me that will be the day I start to reconsider other DAW's frankly speaking. But here's to hoping that Apple keeps the famous 5,1 macpros relevant for longer then that. Based on history though, that is unlikely. I also do not agree with your assertion that computers should only be useful for a couple years and then need to be replaced. That is a mindset that developed because for years we had CPU's doubling in speed every other year and memory/disk capacity also doubling rapidly. It made a lot more sense to upgrade the hardware every 3-4 years back then because the new computers really were lightyears ahead of what was out 5 years before. Software was advancing along with it, making use of every possible cycle of CPU juice available and memory as well. However that phenomenon is not occurring anymore like it used to, CPU's have kind of maxed out and memory has gotten bigger then anyone needs really. There is more than enough CPU, memory and disk space to do most of the things we want to do with our computers now. There is a law of diminishing returns in effect, as well as a bit of a technological ceiling in terms of CPU speeds. There is absolutely no reason at all why a 2010 computer can't be kept in service for quite a while from now into the future frankly speaking. The idea that computers are disposable items that need to be upgraded within 5 years to something better was true in the 80's and 90's, but its not true now. That is what manufucturers are trying hard to make us all believe though. Here's a conspiracy theory for you, you think its any coincidence that suddenly every CPU of the last decade is not safe and has to be replaced by something entirely new? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 at least you're honest enough to call your conspiracy theory a conspiracy theory. meanwhile, no one's forcing you forward; there are people making music (hopefully good music) still on logic 9, and... who cares? the music matters, the tool are just tools. the end of moore's law has long been here; still, improving software & hardware, advancing the tech surely is a good thing (or, we could go back to floppy disks and akai samplers; and am sure there is someone making great music with that tech) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 wow so glad I finally got your approval fisher king.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darude Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I also do not agree with your assertion that computers should only be useful for a couple years and then need to be replaced... Are you still talking to me? I never said that. My now 9 years of use of my MP is hardly a couple of years. Like I said, I am looking at same kind of possible hardware upgrade costs with you, which will be a significant undertaking both money and effort wise and it's not like I like throwing money around, but at this point, especially the trashcan MP already not having PCI, I'm not holding my breath. I personally feel like I've easily gotten my money's worth and then some. The old system also won't stop working the day I can't upgrade to the next OS, but will be very capable production machine still, just no new features added. Also, my workhorse MOTUs, while still functioning and decent quality, are due to be upgraded, the specs after 16 years are somewhat outdated and lacking modern i/o. But all that will be a sweet rig for my son for several years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) Everyone's situation is a bit different. exactly; which is why people's 'absolute' statements have no merit (unless, of course, everyone shares the same experience). A recommendation is just that - someone asking what you think, you giving your opinion - and the end user weighs up the advice and decides what to do. And when people say "Should I go to HS?", my recommendation is not, at this time, for a whole heap of reasons, and without any pressing real need - for example, if the end user wants to run the latest version of FCPX with HEVC support, then you *have* to go HS, so in that instance, my recommendation might be different (a qualified "yes", probably). The thing is, it seems very few people *need* HS for specific features (and if you do, you know already), so at this time, given some well documented issues that some folks are having (which will get ironed out, I'm sure), I'd say, without a real pressing need, then my recommendation is stick with Sierra. You are absolutely free to disagree, or recommend otherwise - I would not say you were wrong, just that I disagree... i've watched this pattern since my first mac OS (10.2); with each new system, people gripe about the new, swear they'll stay with the old. then time passes, and we all move ahead. so we can choose which OS/logic version, etc we want to run. Sure. I generally stay one or two generations behind, and I am ready to go to Sierra apart from two very specific reasons that is preventing me - one being not able to use Keymap Pro without figuring out some workarounds. And that app is important to me. just tiresome when people 'explain' things in broad strokes, as if their opinion was a fact... for everyone. I'm not sure anyone was pretending their opinions or recommendations were fact. They are what they are, and anyone's advice can be followed, noted, or ignored by anyone... I'm not sure why you have got so bent out of shape by it... :shrugs: Edited January 27, 2018 by des99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucknkd Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I just discovered there's a new demo project. It's called Colors by Beck Hansen any idea how to get it? cant find it on my computer. i see the old one "helena beat" but thats it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) Are you still talking to me? I never said that. Well I guess I was responding to this. Second of all, without being civil or not, I don't know how many years of usage do you guys expect out of your computers, . . so I'm at 9 years and counting, which in computer years is like FOREVER of course you are not really in disagreement with me since you are using an even older Mac then I am and so far so good! Edited January 27, 2018 by Dewdman42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chucknkd Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 ALSO, anyone else have a return of the "everytime you open logic it rescans a few plugs" thing? rescans 98 waves plugs every time i open... good lord Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skijumptoes Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 Well, had to put 10.4 on my MBP and give it a try, it really is great i can see why people are pleased. I was really quite surprised at how visually impressive the reverb ui's are, absolutely fantastic work. Vintage EQ's are tremendous, and i've never used the camel stuff in the past so love the two new plugins for step and phat... It all feels a bit non-logic which is super refreshing. But, as a big fan of the mellotron, it really is a treat having that as a separate instrument, i know it's not everyone's cup of tea, but i grew up, off my tits sat in apartments listening to strawberry fields so it holds a special place for me, i also find myself watching McCartney on youtube sat giving demonstrations of one in Abbey Road.. Pleased to see there's some hidden controls for the release envelope too, i thought it was missing to start with. I'm now at a crossroads to forget this never happened and run my main audio machine with LPX 10.3 for the foreseeable.. Or risk it all and do a 'darude' and put that modified firmware hack on and drag my Mac into the future. ...I really want to make a joke about jumping into a sandstorm now, or perhaps driving into one at 88 mph using a particularly dodgy car with cool doors. If there's anyone else out there who's attempting to force their 3.1/4.1 Mac Pro to Sierra/High Sierra i'd be really interested to hear how it went, the only thing that's stopped me doing it on impulse is that i could only find a 4gb USB stick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 I just discovered there's a new demo project. It's called Colors by Beck Hansen any idea how to get it? cant find it on my computer. i see the old one "helena beat" but thats it... I think after you download all the content it will be there under /Library/Application Support/Logic/Logic Pro X Demosongs/ Its pretty cool actually to see what went into Beck's tune. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anp27 Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 ALSO, anyone else have a return of the "everytime you open logic it rescans a few plugs" thing? rescans 98 waves plugs every time i open... good lord No such problem here.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stratquebec Posted January 27, 2018 Share Posted January 27, 2018 (edited) I just discovered there's a new demo project. It's called Colors by Beck Hansen any idea how to get it? cant find it on my computer. i see the old one "helena beat" but thats it... Hi! Not in front of my Mac but something like: Let me update my post: Fiile->New From Template...-> Demo projects->Beck - Colors Edited January 28, 2018 by stratquebec Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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