Dewdman42 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Why don't you just have them call me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skijumptoes Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 How long do you think a computer should stay current in this day and age? More than 10 years? Until it's no longer capable of course, do you support un-necessary land fill? That's the ultimate cost to us all and generations after us. How can we responsibly look after this planet when companies deliberately lead us into disposing of perfectly good hardware? And the generation of further future landfill in the guise of un-necessary dongles, attachments. They don't give two shits about half of what they pretend to. The crazy thing is you can run the latest windows os and software on those machines, how an earth are Microsoft managing it when Apple can't support their own hardware anymore? It's terrible, and wasteful, and done in the name of greed. It's a sin by the very definition of the word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 The crazy thing is you can run the latest windows os and software on those machines, how an earth are Microsoft managing it when Apple can't support their own hardware anymore? It's terrible, and wasteful, and done in the name of greed. It's a sin by the very definition of the word. +1 Its quite likely my 5,1 will in fact eventually turn into a Windows VEP slave in the long run. Ironic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted June 4, 2019 Author Share Posted June 4, 2019 How long do you think a computer should stay current in this day and age? More than 10 years? Until it's no longer capable of course, do you support un-necessary land fill? That's the ultimate cost to us all and generations after us. How can we responsibly look after this planet when companies deliberately lead us into disposing of perfectly good hardware? And the generation of further future landfill in the guise of dongles, attachments and all these other products that shouldn't be needed. The crazy thing is you can run the latest windows os and software on those machines, how an earth are Microsoft managing it when Apple can't support their own hardware anymore? It's terrible, and wasteful, and done in the name of greed. It's a sin by the very definition of the word. thanks for clearing that up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roundabout Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 How long do you think a computer should stay current in this day and age? More than 10 years? Until it's no longer capable of course It's expensive to make sure new software works on old hardware. Apple rarely obsoletes hardware because it isn't capable. They obsolete it because it makes no financial sense to go to the effort to make sure new software accommodates the needs of the old hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 how an earth are Microsoft managing it when Apple can't support their own hardware anymore? Microsoft made their money selling Windows and Office licenses and not long ago went into the computer hardware business with their Surface models. If Microsoft entered the hardware business, that's a money making decision. Everybody wants to make money. At least Apple shows the Environmental Checklist for their products. Does Microsoft have one as well? I'm asking, didn't check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skijumptoes Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) It's not expensive to keep hardware running that's why frameworks exist, you build on the framework. I do it night and day and have to support Linux, >Win7 and Mac >10.10 with applications, and have a guess which has the tendency to break overnight when there's updates?! In Apple's case they just bring a new framework in every 2 years and use it to obsolete hardware to drive sales - we all know it, it's not a big surprise. Just as everyone's conditioned to accept a $6k Mac 'Pro' that comes with an SSD the size of an iPhone XR, it's a merry walk! They do it, cause they can, and what matters to them is their uptake of new products, OS and attachment rates to show shareholders - it's that simple, and why the OS became 'free'. Apple are the cause of expense for their own platform developers to support customers, hence why most crossplatform software sucks vs it's windows counterpart, they change specs at will and quite happy to break components and expect you to find a way around it. Many people hack their old Mac Pros to run later OS's without a hitch, this proves the fallacy to be wrong and what Apple's motives are. Maybe they should hire dosdude into their team, eh?! Edited June 4, 2019 by skijumptoes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Many people hack their old Mac Pros to run later OS's without a hitch, this proves the fallacy to be wrong and what Apple's motives are. Maybe they should hire dosdude into their team, eh?! let's hope some hackers will keep the 5,1 cheese grater alive and well for a few more revs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skijumptoes Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 At least Apple shows the Environmental Checklist for their products.Does Microsoft have one as well? I'm asking, didn't check. Are you kidding me? Have you ever worked in industry? a 2 man manufacturing setup have to have environmental checklists in place nowadays or they wouldn't get accredited and added as approved suppliers to the customers they wish to serve. You didn't answer whether you support the landfill of products they no longer wish you to use? That's what they're effectively promoting, perhaps dosdude should get an environmental award for all the machines he's managed to keep active because 'good old' Apple would rather chase the dollar eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Really uncool, trashy, and disrespectful response. So what contributions can you make please? Well the Mac Pro used to have affordable options, I brought the very first one when Steve Jobs came back and I've been buying a new one on average every three to four years since, there has always been one that was reasonably affordable, but this one is ridiculous, I'm not against having a very powerful machine available but they could have made a machine that could be justified by those that have been buying these things since the beginning, instead they have priced them out, and all that is left is the iMac which isn't configurable and your paying for the design, and also it comes with a screen which is unwanted by many, or the Mac Mini which is really underpowered, why not an affordable 3k to 4k machine like what has always been available? why make a machine that is so way out there? why not make it so it could be configured cheaper? Apple have become a greedy and stupid company, and control freaks, the stand for the new Monitor shows this clearly, they can't even come up with a good looking design these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha Franck Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 How long do you think a computer should stay current in this day and age? More than 10 years? Every bit as long as it's powerful enough to suit my needs. Would you like Fender to render your 63 Strat useless because "it had its run"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 How long do you think a computer should stay current in this day and age? More than 10 years? Every bit as long as it's powerful enough to suit my needs. Would you like Fender to render your 63 Strat useless because "it had its run"? Hahaha, really? What the hell does a Fender have to do with this? Now you're really reaching. Come on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha Franck Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Hahaha, really? What the hell does a Fender have to do with this? Now you're really reaching. Come on. What does my Mac Pro, which is still running circles around most other Macs, have to do with being obsolete? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted June 4, 2019 Author Share Posted June 4, 2019 one of the things i've always appreciated about this forum is how many helpful, interesting people here. but all this whining is disappointing. it's like the GOT petition; ask a million people how the show should have ended, and you'll get a million different answers. meanwhile, the showrunners only real responsibility is to their show, and (rightfully so), their vision. anyone who expects any corporation to adapt to their specific wishes, is... just wishing. and apple, despite it's 'cool' appearance, is just that; a corporation. get over it. in the real world, we adapt, or find workarounds, or... whine. sad to see so much whining here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triplets Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 one of the things i've always appreciated about this forum is how many helpful, interesting people here. but all this whining is disappointing. Amen brother! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 (edited) I think his point is very well made. A device of any kind is useful for as long as it's useful. There is nothing inherently outdated about the 5,1 Mac Pro. Mine scored 25,000 on the geekbench multicore test. That is the best mac Apple has ever made frankly. The new one is going to be like that too, but the price is too high. Simple as that. In ten years from now people will be running that one. maybe me too if Apple can limp me along with my 5,1 until I can afford it. I can't afford it now though, so thanks Apple for not providing a solution to get past the 5,1 in the short term and obsoleting it at the same time. A lot of people got into false thinking that a computer needs to be replaced every 3 years because back in the 90's that was a truism. Back then computers were doubling in speed like every 6 months it seemed. The amount of ram, which was badly needed, was doubling up every year or so and CPU speed also. You truly DID need to upgrade your computer every 3 years in those days. But somewhere along the line we hit the limit for what CPU can do, or close to it. So they started making multiple cores to get more performance. But the truth is, there has not been a doubling effect on performance for quite some time, and many people have not needed to get their RAM beyond what has currently been possible for quite a while also. That trend has drastically slowed down to need to upgrade your computer so often. Its a complete falsity to say that there is some inherent time limit for how often we need to upgrade to the latest computer tech... Now if you're Apple you make money by finding a way to compel us to do so. So that is what they do. They bring in Retina displays, or TB3, or T2 chips, Metal card reliance, etc.. Find some way that requires us to replace a perfectly capable machine with one that is marginally better, for thousands of dollars. The 5,1 was a truly expandable and great machine.. Apple made a mistake there in that they made something that was hard to obsolete. They are going to try to force it now. IF they provide me with a sub-$5k alternative that is not underpowered, I would consider it. But they are not, and I doubt they will. Edited June 4, 2019 by Dewdman42 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 You can refer to it as "whining", or you know you can always just ignore the thread. How about all your "whining" about people? What's it to you if people are disspointed? Public forums and social media are the way to have our criticisms aired pubically and for good reason its public. If this offends you then just don't click the link to read the thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted June 4, 2019 Author Share Posted June 4, 2019 You can refer to it as whining, or you know you can always just ignore the thread. How about all your whining about people? What's it to you if people are disspointed? Public forums and social media are the way to have our criticisms aired pubically and for good reason its public. If this offends you then just don't click the link to read the thread. my reading a thread (that i in fact, started) is the problem, and not the endless whining? maybe... there are more productive ways to discuss needs, opinions. just a thought. but i respect your right to whine (and mine to point it out). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 {this post was in violation of our forum rules (no personal attacks) and was deleted by an admin} Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted June 4, 2019 Author Share Posted June 4, 2019 {this post was in violation of our forum rules (no personal attacks) and was deleted by an admin} which derogatory term? am not calling anyone names, just pointing out that there's a lot of whining going on in this thread. would you agree? if not, that's fine, we don't have to agree on anything. really, am just making an observation, nothing more. will drop it! just set up a new desk, and am back to work today. loving my 2019 imac, and excited about catalina (which i will report on here once the public beta goes live)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrabtharsHammer Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 In the dictionary of the company, the term "professional" clearly seems to be synonymous with "millionaire". However, I‘m really curious when the new version of Logic will hit the App Store and if it will bring any new features to the table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha Franck Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Thing is, with the cheesegraters, Apple constructed a machine that was too good for their plans. So now they have to artificially end its life. Same with the Mac Mini Server, which was ditched entirely and followed by a machine a lot less powerful. Same with older iDevices which are artificially held away from newer iOS versions. In case planned obsolescence doesn't work out well (because the damn thing still simply won't break a sweat after years) you turn over to forced obsolescence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted June 4, 2019 Author Share Posted June 4, 2019 In the dictionary of the company, the term "professional" clearly seems to be synonymous with "millionaire". that would suggest that anyone who buys a car, an apartment, a state-of-the-moment tv... or anything over $5000 is a millionaire. i think that would surprise a lot of people who aren't, in fact, millionaires.. but own a car, tv, etc. if you check the specs, the design... the new mac pro is priced about right (of course, that takes into account the 'apple tax'). it's an astonishing mac; i don't need it, but if i did.. i'd buy one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sascha Franck Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Regarding Logic, I can only hope that I will not be excluded from the next update already. Unfortunately, things aren't looking too shiny, the WWDC version already looks quite Catalina-ready... and might as well turn out to be Catalina-only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 The specs for next Logic said High Sierra. I think you'll be fine for a while honestly I think we have a few more years to milk this out. We might be stuck on Mojave for a bit, but then I don't know about you but I have a lot of apps that are complaining to me when I launch them the first time that they won't work on the next OSX, I presume because they are not 64bit apps. So...Catalina I think will be a long ways off for a lot of people honestly. Apple has a big hurdle they are expecting people to cross to move on with them. Expensive hardware, a 64bit only OS..and obsoleting older hardware from using it. A lot of people will not move to Catalina in my opinion. We have a few years yet before this becomes a real issue. We shall see. Plenty of time for Apple to provide better options or for us to find our own different path... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roundabout Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 I think your derogatory term towards disappointed people shows you to be a jerk. How's that? Do you mind if I ask how old you are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted June 4, 2019 Author Share Posted June 4, 2019 Regarding Logic, I can only hope that I will not be excluded from the next update already.Unfortunately, things aren't looking too shiny, the WWDC version already looks quite Catalina-ready... and might as well turn out to be Catalina-only. always good to complain about something before you know the details. but didn't you see triplet's link in this thread? the minimum requirement seems to be "10.13.6"... https://www.apple.com/logic-pro/specs/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewdman42 Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 Do you mind if I ask how old you are? old enough to know a jerk when I see one. Do you want to join the club? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherking Posted June 4, 2019 Author Share Posted June 4, 2019 The specs for next Logic said High Sierra. I think you'll be fine for a while honestly I think we have a few more years to milk this out. We might be stuck on Mojave for a bit, but then I don't know about you but I have a lot of apps that are complaining to me when I launch them the first time that they won't work on the next OSX, I presume because they are not 64bit apps. So...Catalina I think will be a long ways off for a lot of people honestly. Apple has a big hurdle they are expecting people to cross to move on with them. Expensive hardware, a 64bit only OS..and obsoleting older hardware from using it. A lot of people will not move to Catalina in my opinion. We have a few years yet before this becomes a real issue. We shall see. Plenty of time for Apple to provide better options or for us to find our own different path... they've done it a number of times; the move away from scsi. abandoning the floppy. the move to firewire, then thunderbolt. and (particularly), the move to intel. but am sure you're right; based on your opinion, 'a lot of people will not move to Catalina'. thanks for the info! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rico Posted June 4, 2019 Share Posted June 4, 2019 one of the things i've always appreciated about this forum is how many helpful, interesting people here. but all this whining is disappointing. it's like the GOT petition; ask a million people how the show should have ended, and you'll get a million different answers. meanwhile, the showrunners only real responsibility is to their show, and (rightfully so), their vision. anyone who expects any corporation to adapt to their specific wishes, is... just wishing. and apple, despite it's 'cool' appearance, is just that; a corporation. get over it. in the real world, we adapt, or find workarounds, or... whine. sad to see so much whining here. To whine about people whining is a bit ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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