Nektar Panorama CS12 - customised control of Logic Pro X

[Sonas]

When custom insert plugins (npm.files) are created in Nektarine, where do I import them to make them open in Logic Pro ?

Edited April 4 by Sonas

[robreed2]

Ohh.Ive had to walk away from the machine for a while, I have music to create. All good apart from trying to use Software instruments. It must be user error. I was watching this video and he has a similar problem , causing it to crash on his live cast...

I couldn't see what he did, but im having similar things. Trying to assign USER controls to Software instruments. Im wondering if 

1.Im using a Artist Mix along with my CS12...Could this be problems.

2.Also going into a USB hub/ powered.

Latest logic version and latest Mac OS... When I finally manage to assign a USER, it gets stuck on screen, when I load up a different SW instrument, its just says there, and I can't use the knobs Ive assigned, to the original SW instrument. I thought it would follow what teh SW instrument I select... it must be user error. as it looks so easy in the manual.  Thanks ROB

[rcandy]

2 minutes ago, robreed2 said:

When I finally manage to assign a USER, it gets stuck on screen, when I load up a different SW instrument,

When you say you load up a different SW instruments are you referring to a) moving to another track within Logic Or b) staying on the same track but changing the instrument on it

[robreed2]

Ive tried both, and it just stays there..whatever I assign to say Knob 1.. only works and displays to that one SW instrument. It doesn't allow me to assign that Knob to the any other SW instrument..

thanks 

[rcandy]

If you stay on the same track but just change the instrument on that track then it doesn't reset. That seems to be a bug.

You need to move to a different track with a different instrument on it

So try setting up multiple tracks. Each track with an instrument that you want to map. Then try mapping.

This works for me on the latest firmware & logic 10.8.1

Also worth opening up the Controller Assignments window in logic and putting it on one side of the screen whilst you are doing all of this

Edited April 4 by rcandy
extra info

[robreed2]

Hi, Thats what I did,I had three SW Inst on different tracks, and it just stuck on the 1st SW USER knob setting. I think, Ill try a clean instal  of Nektar SW and reset Logic Controller settings, something is wrong .

[enossified]

On 4/3/2024 at 6:59 AM, trstack said:

How about a simple README txt file included in the CS12 beta download that either summarizes or points to basic resources of what Nektarine is and how it relates to the CS12?

Here's the link to older Nektarine documentation (v2.5.83 from March 2023, my account shows the latest is 2.5.99, your Beta is probably newer than that as well) that you can look at. It shows how the software works with the Nektar keyboard controllers so it will not cover how it might work with the CS12 but it might help you get up to speed on the basic concepts of how it handles instruments.

[rcandy]

You may want to take a look in your Controller Assignments Window in logic just in case something has got messed up in there.

Anything you learn should show up in the <No Zone> section - just check it hasn't ended up in the CS12 Global Section by mistake. A learned parameter will have the word Learned next to it in the Control column

You could try deleting your CS preference file altogether but I'm hesitant to say that as you have another control surface and may lose any mappings etc you've done with that

[trstack]

Shouldn’t be this hard… Like any industry, the standards appear to guidelines and implemented on a per solution basis. ANSI, EDI, HL7, FHIR…I’ve been waiting 25 years for the medical/clinical space to agree but there is too much money to made playing around the edges. No where near the same incentives for musical instruments so we adjust, adopt and buy new gear in hopes of nirvana. 

[robreed2]

Got myself in a real mess now.. its causing my Logic to crash, and I cant load Logic .. it hangs for 2 mins, before I can load any songs... I hammer it everyday, never had this.. tried re installing Logic and the Nectar...Desperate to get the Nectar software out, any ideas how to un instal.. gutted, for me it's a great Effect controller, but the software instruments control   is a no go. Ive most prob spooked it somewhere, user error, but I cant afford this to happen again.

[rcandy]

Have your tried delete your CS preference file and starting logic and with no devices attached

Edited April 5 by rcandy

[robreed2]

Yep..Complete new Logic instal, and deleted all Logic Prefs..  I just cant get rid of the control core. Logic is trying to do something after scanning all samples, etc.. it has a spinning ball, for around 2 mins, then starts.. trying to get all Nectar SW out, to get back to where I was a week ago.  Logic works fine, once it has started fully..but I cant have it like this..for some reason the whole Nektar/ Logic is not right on my machine..I need to uninstall ALL Nektar and start again.. bloody nightmare 

 

[TChandler]

25 minutes ago, robreed2 said:

Yep..Complete new Logic instal, and deleted all Logic Prefs..  I just cant get rid of the control core. Logic is trying to do something after scanning all samples, etc.. it has a spinning ball, for around 2 mins, then starts.. trying to get all Nectar SW out, to get back to where I was a week ago.  Logic works fine, once it has started fully..but I cant have it like this..for some reason the whole Nektar/ Logic is not right on my machine..I need to uninstall ALL Nektar and start again.. bloody nightmare 

I suspect you managed to learn an assignment that shouldn't be such as rebuild defaults and Logic still has the assignments stored in the cs file. You need to locate:

 

~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.logic.pro.cs

 

Ensure Logic is shut down first.  Then delete that file.  If you deleted the file before Logic was shut down it doesn't work.

 

[robreed2]

Thanks for reply, I will try this... Im sure it's something Ive done by accident, fingers crossed.

Very frustrating, as I want this unit to work for me. Before this Logic problem. If I skipped between, SW instruments, with the smart controls opened, it would crash, after selecting 4/5 different tracks in a row.....something is not right...Intel Mac??  - Eucon Controller ( artist Mix), along side ( though switched off)..?? just hate wasting time when I should be getting work done.

 

 

 

 

I suspect you managed to learn an assignment that shouldn't be such as rebuild defaults and Logic still has the assignments stored in the cs file. You need to locate:

~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.logic.pro.cs

Ensure Logic is shut down first.  Then delete that file.  If you deleted the file before Logic was shut down it doesn't work.

 

[TChandler]

On 4/4/2024 at 1:33 AM, Sonas said:

When custom insert plugins (npm.files) are created in Nektarine, where do I import them to make them open in Logic Pro ?

ControlCore and Nektarine reference the same file, so they will be picked up automatically, but you may need to toggle ControlCore on and off.

 

ControlCore panel can be opened at //Applications/Nektar/ControlCore.

 

It's a pretty complicated control panel, so here's the full instructions for use:

To stop controlCore, click "stop controlCore"

To start controlCore, click "start ControlCore" 

😉

 

 

 

 

[TChandler]

8 minutes ago, robreed2 said:

Thanks for reply, I will try this... Im sure it's something Ive done by accident, fingers crossed.

Very frustrating, as I want this unit to work for me. Before this Logic problem. If I skipped between, SW instruments, with the smart controls opened, it would crash, after selecting 4/5 different tracks in a row.....something is not right...Intel Mac??  - Eucon Controller ( artist Mix), along side ( though switched off)..?? just hate wasting time when I should be getting work done.

 

So sorry you are having this issue, but the good news is it's often simple to rectify.  Please contact Nektar support.

 

If you send your '.cs' file into support we can take a look for you.  

 

I'm not a fan of Logic's learn assignments which is why we moved the whole plugin mapping system to controlCore.  It's so easy for users to make mistakes.  We regularly get reports of a key not working on the keyboard for example and it's always down to a learn assignment of the key's MIDI message.  This will happen for soft synth support too in an update, there's a lot more parameters to handle, so we focused on the insert FX first.

 

The CS12 (and other Nektar controllers) do as much as possible to reduce the chance of mis-assignments by putting control of learn on the device, handling learn mode on/off, assigning the correct message type and feedback all just by holding the SHIFT button down on the controller and turning a control.  Overall, the process is simple and smooth.

However, Logic always learns the 'last learnable parameter' and we can't guard against this being the wrong one.  Additionally, when learn is active, even when triggered on our device, Logic is listening out for ANY incoming MIDI fro ANY connected device.  So there's also potential for mis-assignment of MIDI messages too particularly if they are transmitting a regular handshaking message (CS12 doesn't do this).  

 

Some plugin parameters are not automatable which means they can't be learned, so even if you follow the process exactly, there's still room for error.  Since almost all of Logic's actions (including open plugin window and rebuild defaults!) is learnable, if you triggered that, then tried to learn a non-automatable parameter, you would end up mapping rebuild defaults by accident!

 

The best advice I can give is if something does not seem right:

- Rebuild Defaults from the Control Surfaces menu

- Check 'No Zone' for any odd looking learned parameter.

- Check the top level of each control surface for odd looking learned parameters.

- Delete anything that doesn't look right!

 

Almost all of the strange behaviour or 'glitches' reported thus far have been down to erroneous user learn assignments, sometimes on other control surfaces.

 

Regarding potential conflicts with Eucon, I can't confirm or deny this as we have no Eucon system to test against, but the .cs file would provide a clue.  

 

Best,

 

Tim

 

[ozinga]

Got my CS12 today! Will dive in tonight and I guess will be visiting this thread quite a lot 🙂

[robreed2]

Thanks Tim for getting back... your right the whole Learn assignments is a nightmare... Update..user error..... though not explained in manual...to assign USER.

1,Press SHIFT ...OK

2. SELECT BY A SINGLE CLICK , the parameter you want to assign, dont toggle or move the parameter ... this is was my error, I would Move the parameter, thinking the SELECT would latch to it, but you just have to single CLICK >>>>> AHA... so that sorted....onwards..may be worth putting this I manual...as if you toggle or move the parameter all hells breaks loose ..ROB

Edited April 5 by robreed2

[rcandy]

27 minutes ago, TChandler said:

- Check 'No Zone' for any odd looking learned parameter.

I have had a couple of instances where the parameter has been learned into the CS12 Globals section. This seems to, sometimes, happen if I start the learning process without having the Learn Assignments screen open. 

[TChandler]

34 minutes ago, rcandy said:

I have had a couple of instances where the parameter has been learned into the CS12 Globals section. This seems to, sometimes, happen if I start the learning process without having the Learn Assignments screen open. 

Yes this can happen, but "rebuild Defaults" moves all learned assignments to no zone.

 

49 minutes ago, robreed2 said:

1,Press SHIFT ...OK

2. SELECT BY A SINGLE CLICK , the parameter you want to assign, dont toggle or move the parameter ... this is was my error, I would Move the parameter, thinking the SELECT would latch to it, but you just have to single CLICK >>>>> AHA... so that sorted....onwards..may be worth putting this I manual...as if you toggle or move the parameter all hells breaks loose ..ROB

 

First the best tip of all:  When learning parameters to the USER pages, first Open the controller Assignments dialog and LEAVE IT OPEN, tucked away in the corner somewhere.  Sometimes the process of the controller assignments window opening can affect the assignment, but it has to be open as part of Logic's learn mode process.  This applies to any controller, not just CS12.

 

With the Controller Assignment dialog open, the most important part next is the correct order for assignment:

- Hold SHIFT

- Click parameter on plugin

- Move control on CS12

- Release SHIFT only when you see the control name in the display, and the control moving on the plugin.

 

The controller assignment is learning the LAST ACTIVATED parameter on the plugin - you are not assigning a parameter to the last turned CS12 control so the order is very important.

 

 

 

[robreed2]

Thanks Tim.... just re read manual, you're right .... RTFM.

"Click!" parameter.... lesson learned.

Thanks for your input here..invaluable.

ROB

[robreed2]

Sorry guys..Im giving wrong info.. you don't have to CLICK it only , you have to MOVE it...as per manual. For me, it just hit and miss, if the parameter assigns..some times it does on 1st attempt, sometimes, it takes 2 or 3 attempts... not sure how to improve this.

[oscwilde]

22 minutes ago, robreed2 said:

For me, it just hit and miss, if the parameter assigns..some times it does on 1st attempt, sometimes, it takes 2 or 3 attempts... not sure how to improve this.

Is there a range of movement that makes this behave consistently?
i.e. if assigning a plug-in knob or slider - do you need to move it....say....20-40% of it's travel/range or a full 100% for the assignment to register/stick?
 

[rcandy]

15 hours ago, robreed2 said:

For me, it just hit and miss, if the parameter assigns..some times it does on 1st attempt, sometimes, it takes 2 or 3 attempts... not sure how to improve this

I've always found the Logic Learn Controller functionality to be a bit flaky to be honest - and that predates me having a CS12. It just sometimes does some weird things. So I just take it all slowly double checking everything is mapped as I want it, slightly annoying but once something is mapped its mapped

[robreed2]

Yep I agree.. Ive had to walk away from USER/Logic Learn... it was driving me mad, and needed to spend some time doing the day job of making music.....So looking at SMART controls. I cant see a way also of COLOUR coding the knobs in Channel mode, which is not good. 

 

"I've always found the Logic Learn Controller functionality to be a bit flaky to be honest - and that predates me having a CS12. It just sometimes does some weird things. So I just take it all slowly double checking everything is mapped as I want it, slightly annoying but once something is mapped its mapped"

[CLeanWake]

I'm new to the forum drawn in by @David Nahmani's CS12 tutorial and review. It's amazing seeing all of the enthusiasm and knowledge-sharing happening. A question I'm hoping someone can answer before I go try it myself: does deleting com.apple.logic.pro.cs as is often suggested as a remedy also wipe out keyboard shortcuts for Logic commands that I've created myself? Or does the *.cs file pertain strictly to control surfaces? (I imagine I can create a backup safety copy and just put it back but thought I would ask first.)

[simon.a.billington]

On 4/2/2024 at 4:04 AM, David Nahmani said:

On 4/2/2024 at 3:55 AM, trstack said:

Do I need to put Logic Controller Assignment in "Learn" mode?

No, that’s not necessary.

Actually, that's really helpful, smart.  As those Logic controller assignments can really start to get quite bloated after a while.

[David Nahmani]

5 hours ago, CLeanWake said:

I'm new to the forum drawn in by @David Nahmani's CS12 tutorial and review.

Wow cool! Welcome to Logic Pro Help, hope you like it around here. 🙂 

5 hours ago, CLeanWake said:

Or does the *.cs file pertain strictly to control surfaces?

Indeed it contains only control surface assignments that you can see under Logic Pro > Control Surfaces > Controller Assignments. 

Your custom keyboard shortcuts are stored in the com.apple.logic10.plist file unless you save a custom key command set (see this comment in my article about transferring Logic Pro settings to a new Mac). 

[CLeanWake]

5 hours ago, David Nahmani said:

Wow cool! Welcome to Logic Pro Help, hope you like it around here. 🙂 

Indeed it contains only control surface assignments that you can see under Logic Pro > Control Surfaces > Controller Assignments. 

Your custom keyboard shortcuts are stored in the com.apple.logic10.plist file unless you save a custom key command set (see this comment in my article about transferring Logic Pro settings to a new Mac). 

Thank you @David Nahmani! Good to know and thanks also for the link to your article about saved custom key command sets. I hadn't thought to do that yet but I think I will as I've put some effort into creating some custom key commands. 

[CLeanWake]

Respecting that the Nektarine <> CS12 integration is in beta-form, has anyone figured out how to remove a parameter assignment to a control in Nektarine? I am able to drag a parameter onto a control just fine and that all seems to sync to the CS12 after shutting things down and stopping/restarting ControlCore. However, there is no way that I've been able to find to *remove* that assignment within Nektarine.

On an adjacent point, I have not been able to create a sub-page in Nektarine that actually shows up on the CS12. I note in the Nektarine documentation that you have to assign a "Page Button" for this to work. I'm assuming that to do this, I click on one or the empty page buttons and then make an assignment for which page that button should open. However, when I execute that sequence, the page button graphic remains empty and the CS12 does not pick up the new page (after shutting everything down, stopping then restarting ControlCore.)

I've submitted tickets for both of these questions to Nektar and will report back with any findings but in the interest of continuing to make progress, I thought I'd post here as well.