Nektar Panorama CS12 - customised control of Logic Pro X

[JFR]

 

2 hours ago, David Nahmani said:

ControlCore 1.0.6 for Logic Pro available now.

• New plugin maps for UAD, Waves, Audio Damage, Baby Audio, Slate Digital and SSL products included.

Great review and thanks for the update, David! It would be great if @TChandler could confirm which UAD, Waves, Audio Damage, Baby Audio, Slate Digital and SSL Plugins have been mapped, as some of these Plugins seemed mapped and colour-coded, but others not.

The colour coding is particularly helpful. Overall, this is a fantastic product, but the mapping of everyday bread and butter Plugins through Control Core, is what has the potential to set this product apart from the competition. The production community is a little fed up with having to load Plugins through wrappers in order to get hands on. With Control Core, this can be eradicated, but that support does need to be added in order to make this product the most successful it can be.

 

[velanche]

@David Nahmanithanks for posting info on the firmware update; will get it today. Did you get an email notification of this? Just wondering how to Nektar sends out an email, when updates are available for registered users.

Thank you!

[David Nahmani]

1 minute ago, velanche said:

Did you get an email notification of this?

Yes I got an email notification that the update was out. 

4 hours ago, JFR said:

Great review and thanks for the update, David!

You're welcome! Good to hear you liked the review. And welcome to Logic Pro Help. 🙂 

[wonshu]

Mine arrived a couple of days ago... The first controller that I think may actually stay with me.

Congratulations, very well done!!

Two questions:

is it possible to instantiate plugins with the CS12? I couldn't find info anywhere... 

I haven't (needed to) rebuild the control surface defaults. I have a couple of assignments that I use on a TouchOSC controller that I programmed myself. Will I loose those assignments when rebuilding defaults or is that per control surface?

[David Nahmani]

10 hours ago, wonshu said:

is it possible to instantiate plugins with the CS12? I couldn't find info anywhere... 

No, that's not possible. 

10 hours ago, wonshu said:

Will I loose those assignments when rebuilding defaults or is that per control surface?

No, you should not lose those assignments when rebuilding the defaults. I still strongly recommend you make a backup of your .cs control surface preference file before rebuilding defaults, just in case. 

[Charlemagne]

18 hours ago, wonshu said:

is it possible to instantiate plugins with the CS12? I couldn't find info anywhere... 

You can however use Plugsearch coupled with Stream Deck or Metagrid and it works like a treat in Logic.

[Sonas]

@TChandler Hello Tim, would it be possible to use the "Green" Pan Knob as a Jog Wheel for those who need it a lot but without using it in "shift"-mode? Pan function could be assigned to "Shift"-Mode instead. It could be a customizable function for users. Thanks, Sonas

[Charlemagne]

54 minutes ago, Sonas said:

@TChandler Hello Tim, would it be possible to use the "Green" Pan Knob as a Jog Wheel for those who need it a lot but without using it in "shift"-mode? Pan function could be assigned to "Shift"-Mode instead. It could be a customizable function for users. Thanks, Sonas

In the latest firmware, they've allowed you to change the Tempo knob function to do a variety of things, including jog. Hit shift and turn the Tempo knob and you'll get the various options.

[Charlemagne]

A few thoughts as I've been trying out the CS12 side by side with a FaderPort v2 + Console 1 MK1 combo (I'm contemplating getting the MK3).

Reported Bugs

- I've run into a few syncing bugs that I've reported to Nektar, where the CS12 doesn't show the right plugins on the selected track or doesn't show all the parameters for the selected plugin.

- Nektarine doesn't recognize my CS12 when plugged in, so I can't use Nektarine to do any mapping. Not sure Nektarine has color support?

- One annoyance I've run across is the plugin windows opening every time I switch tracks. Not sure how to address it.

Pros

- It's nice to have a built-in motorized fader for a change. And the CS12 has a fair amount of unique functionality in its transport control (loop selection, play selection, set locators, marker recall). This is not something the FaderPort v2 has.

- Overall, the hardware feels well-built and was generally plug and play into Logic.

- Relatively easy mapping on the device itself (I'll come to some niggles)

- 12 knobs plus 4 buttons gives you a lot of mapping flexibility - there's a fair amount of control for any plugin you might want to use.

Things I don't like so far

- I feel the overall unit is let down by the software of the screen. The text is too small IMO, it is aliased / doesn't look crisp, but worst of all, there is a noticeable lag and flicker when changing channels or plugin selection.

- While the Logic plugins are less of an issue, the non-Logic plugins don't utilize unique colors at all in the built-in maps! This is a huge oversight IMO. A unit like this works best if you can minimize how much time it takes to mentally map a knob to the specific parameter it is set to control. If every knob is the same color (as is the case for most of the 3rd-party plugin maps), you're only left with trying to correlate the position of the knob with the grid on the screen, which takes more time and effort. I've recolored (and remapped) a few of the UADx plugins and I wish Nektar had done a better job here. Additionally, some of the maps are not organized well in terms of their parameter layouts. They don't really follow the plugin UI layout or it is a bit haphazard trying to fit way too many parameters onto the screen.

- I had a concern about this before buying and now having used the unit, my worries have been not been alleviated. Trying to mentally switch between the screen and the knobs to find the right parameter to control tends to create enough mental lag that I wonder how much this is benefiting my workflow vs. using a mouse.

 

Overall, I've found the FaderPort v2 to be a decent transport control (coupled with some key commands) that isn't that outmatched by the CS12 in that regard. Yes, the CS12 has a higher resolution fader and some nice automation modes, but I have not found the resolution of the FaderPort to be lacking for my usage. For plugin control, if you have bespoke colorized maps, the CS12 could make for a pretty good unit that speeds up your workflow. However, for me, it seems to be a poor replacement for a dedicated channel strip unit like the Console 1 where every knob has a specific function and you're never left looking around. I'll explore the CS12 a bit more of the next week or so and then decide whether to keep it or not.

[rcandy]

10 hours ago, Charlemagne said:

- One annoyance I've run across is the plugin windows opening every time I switch tracks. Not sure how to address it.

That's not happening with me but I did have something similar with an SSL device. I can't for the life of me remember how I corrected it but I dimly remember unchecking some box in Logic labelled exclusive

10 hours ago, Charlemagne said:

the non-Logic plugins don't utilize unique colors at all in the built-in maps! This is a huge oversight IMO

Some of them do. Certainly Fab Filter Pro Q3 and SSL Channel Strip 2 have colours assigned to them. I'd agree that more of this could be done but I like to customise anyway so its not an issue that rattles me

10 hours ago, Charlemagne said:

- I had a concern about this before buying and now having used the unit, my worries have been not been alleviated. Trying to mentally switch between the screen and the knobs to find the right parameter to control tends to create enough mental lag that I wonder how much this is benefiting my workflow vs. using a mouse.

I don't use my CS12 with all my plug-ins and don't think I ever will. What I use it with is the my most frequently used plug-ins and the most frequently used parameters on those plug-ins. This does help build up the muscle memory. That being said I do find altering a parameter using a rotary encoder to be a more satisfying method of changing the value. It seems to free my from looking at the value and I rotate the knob til I hear the change that I want to hear or one I like. So even if I had a bit of mental lag I would still choose this method

 

9 hours ago, Charlemagne said:

However, for me, it seems to be a poor replacement for a dedicated channel strip unit like the Console 1 where every knob has a specific function and you're never left looking around.

I've got an SSL UC1 and I will continue to use that as I use the SSL channelstrips a lot and having everything labelled on the device or dedicated function is very very useful. The newly launch 360 Link doesn't interest me (though I do think it will add value to the device for other owners). The reason being though you can map more of less anything to whatever you want on it unless the plug-in you are mapping is similar to an SSL channel strip I find it confusing to control a parameter that is labelled as something else on the SSL. I think Console 1 looks great but for my use I think the configurable nature of the CS12 suits me better, this is the probably the first control surface I've had where I think it will genuinely become a useful and frequently used tool as opposed to something that is occasionally useful but looks cool on my desk. I hope its a big success for Nektar

 

[velanche]

I'm not as well-versed with using hardware channel strips as you guys, but I'm with @rcandy regarding the use case of the CS12, which is to gain access to the most common parameters and saving them, or otherwise map my own and save. The potential ease of automation is another reason. The controller is just another tool alongside the keyboard shortcuts, my trackpad, my MIDI controller, and maybe my digital mixer....just a complimentary device, but potentially very useful. 

My two cents. 

[Sonas]

How many parameters are you able to assign to plugins? 24 + 8 buttons (2 pages) ?

Edited March 24 by Sonas

[rcandy]

I'm not sure what the limitations are but it can certainly handle FabFilter Q3 with 20 bands of EQ

[Charlemagne]

15 hours ago, rcandy said:

That's not happening with me but I did have something similar with an SSL device. I can't for the life of me remember how I corrected it but I dimly remember unchecking some box in Logic labelled exclusive

Thanks for the hint - I figured out how to prevent it "LOGIC PRO / CONTROL SURFACES / CONTROLLER ASSIGNMENTS / NAVIGATION / NO MODE / PARAMETER 0 - Now on the right hand side check the 'EXCLUSIVE' box."

(Edit: Scratch that - it doesn't seem to fix the issue consistently.)

I think if you're willing to take the time to essentially map all of the plugins you want to use with the CS12, with custom layouts and colors, then it can be pretty quick to use the controller in a fast, intuitive way. I'm slowly going through my main bread & butter plugins and re-mapping all of them (including the ones Nektar said it had already mapped). I do feel though for new users the out of the box experience could be improved if Nektar provided better maps from the start.

Is there a way to customize the name of the parameters? For example, some parameters can be very long and get truncated on the screen, but I can find a more useful name for myself.

Edited March 25 by Charlemagne

[oscwilde]

2 hours ago, Charlemagne said:

Is there a way to customize the name of the parameters? For example, some parameters can be very long and get truncated on the screen, but I can find a more useful name for myself.

Nektarine would allow this.
Not sure how deep you've dived with it/whether or not it is "fully" integrated with the CS12 yet - as it is with the Panorama P and T units?
If not, I suspect updated Nektarine versions will enhance renaming/colour assignments, a.s.o. for the CS12.

Nektarine is somewhat strangely laid out and it might take you a bit of time to have the "eureka" moment (or maybe I'm projecting 😂).
It's quite powerful and flexible for layers, routing, naming, mapping of presets, params, a.s.o., but you need to work with it methodically, depending on what you're trying to achieve....and save as you go. If you jump from place to place, you can get lost in more complex mappings/routings as the Nektarine UI is a bit "spreadsheet-y".
Once you've got a handle on it though, it's a useful utility (and also handy as a host for VST-only plugs, if you use any).

[Charlemagne]

43 minutes ago, oscwilde said:

Nektarine would allow this.
Not sure how deep you've dived with it/whether or not it is "fully" integrated with the CS12 yet - as it is with the Panorama P and T units?
If not, I suspect updated Nektarine versions will enhance renaming/colour assignments, a.s.o. for the CS12.

Nektarine is somewhat strangely laid out and it might take you a bit of time to have the "eureka" moment (or maybe I'm projecting 😂).
It's quite powerful and flexible for layers, routing, naming, mapping of presets, params, a.s.o., but you need to work with it methodically, depending on what you're trying to achieve....and save as you go. If you jump from place to place, you can get lost in more complex mappings/routings as the Nektarine UI is a bit "spreadsheet-y".
Once you've got a handle on it though, it's a useful utility (and also handy as a host for VST-only plugs, if you use any).

I was hoping to use Nektarine, but thus far, I have not been able to get it to recognize my CS12, so I can't do any mapping within it. To be honest, I've found the on-device mapping to be rather easy to use and quick. I adjusted / re-mapped all my Fabfilter, SoundToys, Softube, and UADx plugins this evening.

I also happen to have a Console 1 MK3 coming later this week, so it'll be interesting to compare the two devices now.

[rcandy]

5 hours ago, Charlemagne said:

Is there a way to customize the name of the parameters? For example, some parameters can be very long and get truncated on the screen, but I can find a more useful name for myself.

Nektarine offers that facility but having had a quick play around with it it doesn't seem to sync the changes back to the map created on the actual CS12 (or at least it doesn't for me). Think I will have to contact support about that one

[TChandler]

A quick address for some questions/issues that have come up:

 

-  Any mapping limitations - Not as far as paging is concerned since we don't use a simple page based architecture.  You can create page hierarchy's in Nektarine, with dedicated navigation buttons.    

There is a limitation of 256 active insert parameters that ControlCore can see due to Logic's control API currently.  Should you need to go beyond the first 256 parameters, you can use CSParameterOrder.plist to re-arrange parameters and ensure the first 256 (these are what ControlCore sees) are available.  I haven't come across many insert FX with more than 256 params however!

 

- Plugin windows opening on track selection - if plugins are hidden (SHIFT+PLUGIN) they come back into view automatically on track change with the CS12.  Instead use SHIFT+MIXER, which closes all plugin windows and prevents opening on track change.  

Other issues that can cause this behaviour - plugin link set to Multi (yellow).  This is detailed in the user guide.  With plugin link set to multi it is intended behaviour for the plugin windows to open on track change.

Unfortunately beyond the settings that can be handled directly with CS12 there are still settings in other control surfaces that cause windows to automatically open on track change with the CS12.  If a control surface is scanning plugin parameters or instrument parameters constantly and hasn't set those assignments as exclusive.  This is particularly common where a control surface is using a plugin host/wrapper or a control surface is looking out for specific plugins by name.

The workaround is to locate the problem parameter in controller assignments and tick the exclusive box when it is selected.  You can also send your CS file into Nektar Support and we will take a look for you.  As was mentioned further up in the thread this issue affects other control surfaces too, so it's worth reporting the issue the manufacturer of the non-exclusive control surface.  The script developer needs to add 'exclusive=true' when creating the control item mapping for an instrument/plugin name/parameter that is going to be constantly scanned.

The majority of problems we've seen in user reports are down to existing controller assignments and other control surface mappings so the CS file is very useful for us.

 

- Mouse Vs CS12.  This has come up a few times.  The CS12 is not designed to replace the mouse - it's designed to fit with a user's existing workflow.  The [SELECT] button functionality gives the user control over any channel parameter clicked with the mouse for example.  This was specifically designed to allow focus on the computer screen without having to look down at the control surface.  We even added the Fader Mute option [SELECT]+Tap the fader to allow one hand on the pan pot, whilst the other hand is on the mouse selecting the parameters as I was still finding the need to look at where the motor fader relocated too a distraction during sound design.  

 

-  Nektarine - in the current release for CS12 there is no color setting.  Most of what you require for editing plugin maps can be handled on the device.

The two editing features you may want to use Nektarine for are:

- creating detailed page hierarchy

- renaming parameters.  To rename a parameter, use the 'display text' column on the control mapping page.  Note that for updated text labels to show in Logic, currently you will need to restart controlCore after saving the map in Nektarine.  The controlCore panel is available at ~/Applications/Nektar/ControlCore

The team are currently working on a Nektarine update for CS12 users.  For now I suggest all problems and feature suggestions are reported to support.

 

[JFR]

On 3/22/2024 at 10:24 AM, JFR said:

It would be great if @TChandler could confirm which UAD, Waves, Audio Damage, Baby Audio, Slate Digital and SSL Plugins have been mapped, as some of these Plugins seemed mapped and colour-coded, but others not.

@TChandler I asked this before the other posts you responded to. Could you please let us know? Thanks in advance 🙂

Edited March 25 by JFR
Typo

[enossified]

On 3/22/2024 at 11:18 AM, David Nahmani said:

Yes I got an email notification that the update was out. 

That's interesting because Nektar has never sent me an email about updates even though I have been subscribed to their email list for over 6 years.

Velanche,

When I asked support about the email list, I was told that no emails have ever been sent to the list. Tim can probably confirm this.  

My guess is David got directly mailed by support. I just go to the Nektar website every few months and check for updates. Reminds me I’m overdue to check 😉

Edited March 25 by enossified

[David Nahmani]

11 minutes ago, enossified said:

My guess is David got directly mailed by support.

The email came from marketing@... and it mentions: 

You have received this email because you have subscribed to Nektar Technology, Inc.

[rcandy]

14 minutes ago, enossified said:

My guess is David got directly mailed by support. I just go to the Nektar website every few months and check for updates. Reminds me I’m overdue to check 😉

I got the email too, came from a marketing email address 

[velanche]

I am on the mailing list too, and have not been getting them. I contacted ted Nektar support, and after confirming with them that I have not any of its emails hit my spam folder, it confirmed that an issue on its end was found and resolved. So if you've signed up also, but not receiving them, perhaps contacting support can sort you out. 

 

[enossified]

Velanche, I actually opened two support tickets about this, most recently about 6 months ago. I  emailed marketing directly today.

It’s good to know that someone has gotten some emails. Sorry about going OT here, folks.

[wonshu]

It really looks like CS12 is going to stay in my production workflow... it physically fits in and I'm already expanding my creative palette substantially by more directly accessing and listening instead of eye hand controlling and automating stuff much more that I always just left alone because it was a nuisance to do it with the trackpad/mouse or the single automation quick access parameter.

I'm happy.

[TChandler]

On 3/25/2024 at 11:39 AM, JFR said:

@TChandler I asked this before the other posts you responded to. Could you please let us know? Thanks in advance 🙂

Sorry I missed this originally.  Rather than listing the maps, it's probably easier to point out the factory map location: //Library/Application Support/Nektar/MapFiles/nektarine/nektarine/Inserts

Nektarine and ControlCore share the same map files.

[velanche]

On 3/25/2024 at 10:41 AM, enossified said:

Velanche, I actually opened two support tickets about this, most recently about 6 months ago. I  emailed marketing directly today.

It’s good to know that someone has gotten some emails. Sorry about going OT here, folks.

I emailed Nektar’s support email address. I usually receive a reply sometime within 24 hours, or at least the next business day if it’s on a weekend. Not sure if the marketing email account is just one-way, but then I never used it. It was mentioned that, at some point, there was a change in which it’s possible that some email addresses from the mailing list could have been lost, so another possibility. 

[Tankfield]

When I select the next or previous track with the left or right buttons on the CS12, Logic opens the window of the first plugin on the new track. Or if the new track is an instrument rather than an audio track it opens the instrument's window.

If I just want to change track to use the fader or pan I don't want a popup window opening.

Is there a setting to turn this behaviour off?

[Charlemagne]

3 hours ago, Tankfield said:

When I select the next or previous track with the left or right buttons on the CS12, Logic opens the window of the first plugin on the new track. Or if the new track is an instrument rather than an audio track it opens the instrument's window.

If I just want to change track to use the fader or pan I don't want a popup window opening.

Is there a setting to turn this behaviour off?

This is what support told me - I have not found it has fixed this issue though. This issue only started after installing the CS12 for me, never with any other control surfaces I've used.

 

Edit: Deleting com.apple.logic.pro.cs has fixed the issue - at least temporarily. I need to see what happens if I re-add Metagrid and my other control surfaces.

 

If you have not done so already, I would recommend using the ‘Rebuild Defaults’ option in Logic. Please follow these steps:

Open the ‘Logic Pro’ menu

Select ‘Control Surfaces’

Select ‘Rebuild defaults’

If you don’t see that option, you will need to ‘Enable Complete Features’ on the ‘Advanced’ page of Logic’s
settings menu.

If you are still having trouble after that, clear out Logics control surface settings. Note, that doing so will
cause Logic to forget control assignments made with Logic'sMIDI learn function (this doesn't affect our plug-ins maps).

Close any applications you have open and open a Finder window.

Open the ‘Go’ menu at the top of the screen.

With the Go menu open, hold the Alt/Option key on your keyboard and select ‘Library’ from the Go menu.

In the Finder window, open the ‘Preferences’ folder.

Find com.apple.logic.pro.cs and move it to your desktop or somewhere you can find it later.

Start Logic.

Regarding the plug-in window behavior, the window behavior is explained under Managing Plug-In Windows on page 13 of the CS12 User's Guide.

 

Edited March 28 by Charlemagne

[Tankfield]

8 hours ago, Charlemagne said:

This is what support told me - I have not found it has fixed this issue though. This issue only started after installing the CS12 for me, never with any other control surfaces I've used.

Edit: Deleting com.apple.logic.pro.cs has fixed the issue - at least temporarily. I need to see what happens if I re-add Metagrid and my other control surfaces.

If you have not done so already, I would recommend using the ‘Rebuild Defaults’ option in Logic. Please follow these steps:

Open the ‘Logic Pro’ menu

Select ‘Control Surfaces’

Select ‘Rebuild defaults’

If you don’t see that option, you will need to ‘Enable Complete Features’ on the ‘Advanced’ page of Logic’s
settings menu.

If you are still having trouble after that, clear out Logics control surface settings. Note, that doing so will
cause Logic to forget control assignments made with Logic'sMIDI learn function (this doesn't affect our plug-ins maps).

Close any applications you have open and open a Finder window.

Open the ‘Go’ menu at the top of the screen.

With the Go menu open, hold the Alt/Option key on your keyboard and select ‘Library’ from the Go menu.

In the Finder window, open the ‘Preferences’ folder.

Find com.apple.logic.pro.cs and move it to your desktop or somewhere you can find it later.

Start Logic.

Regarding the plug-in window behavior, the window behavior is explained under Managing Plug-In Windows on page 13 of the CS12 User's Guide.

Hi Charlemagne, thanks for your help.

I tried both Rebuilding Defaults and deleting com.apple.logic.pro.cs, but the behaviour is still the same: selecting a track with the CS12 also opens the instrument window or a plugin window.